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TheLoremaster
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: [50 Fathoms] Elective surgery on the Seven Seas? |
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So here's a weird one...
In last week's battle, the group found a Mage's Eyeball, a Relic that gives the bearer +8 to resist opposed Powers. The catch is that it only works when installed in an empty eye socket.
The dilemma: every PC still have all their eyes. But one of the PCs (the ship's mage and only character with the Healing Power) really, really wants to use it.
They also have a ship's surgeon with Skill: Healing d8 and the Healer Edge.
The question: how would you handle the surgery? What rules would you use? How much damage would the patient take? Any lasting effects? How can the character off-set any damage?
I have my own ideas, but I was wondering what other GMs would do.
Thanks!
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Clint
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: |
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I'm having flashbacks to the story of the Head of Vecna! 
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JackMann
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010
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Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: |
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So, basically, this is a pretty simple procedure. Scoop out the eyeball, cauterize any blood vessels so he doesn't bleed to death, and then, after it's had time to heal a bit, put the mage's eyeball in.
I'd go with a healing roll, no penalty to remove the eye. No penalty there. Go ahead and give the player a wound penalty from the pain. The surgeon has to continue to make healing checks to prevent infection for a week or so (at -2 if he doesn't have access to any sort of anti-septic). At the end of the week, assuming no infection, the wound penalty goes away, the eye socket is cleared out, and ready for the Mage's Eyeball. The player takes on the one-eye hindrance (since the artifact can't actually see for him), but he gains the bonus from the item. |
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Zadmar
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: Re: [50 Fathoms] Elective surgery on the Seven Seas? |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | | I have my own ideas, but I was wondering what other GMs would do. |
You could just do a straight Healing roll, but personally I'd make it a bit more involved, to try and turn it into a memorable event. Perhaps something like this:
The mage makes a Spirit roll, with a +2 bonus if he gets drunk first. On a failure he chickens out at the last minute, on a success he goes through with it but can't help squirming during the operation, on a raise he manages to keep still.
The surgeon makes a healing roll, with -2 if the mage is squirming, and a further -2 if he lacks the appropriate tools for removing an eye. On a failure he manages to ruin the eye, but not get it out of the socket. On a critical failure he damages the socket somehow, or causes serious bleeding, or something equally unpleasant. I'd allow other players to make cooperative rolls, using other traits if appropriately described (eg Strength to hold the mage down, Notice to pass the surgeon appropriate tools, etc).
I'd probably treat a success as two levels of Fatigue and a raise as one level of Fatigue, but a failure would be an unsoakable wound and a critical failure might even be instant incapacitation (followed by a roll for Bleeding Out).
See also: REMOVAL OF THE EYEBALL: A QUICK AND EASY METHOD |
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TheLoremaster
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Clint wrote: | | I'm having flashbacks to the story of the Head of Vecna! |
I know, right!?! 
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Jordan Peacock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: Re: [50 Fathoms] Elective surgery on the Seven Seas? |
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| Zadmar wrote: | | The mage makes a Spirit roll, with a +2 bonus if he gets drunk first. On a failure he chickens out at the last minute, on a success he goes through with it but can't help squirming during the operation, on a raise he manages to keep still. |
I like this touch. As it is, I think I'd slap a penalty on the Spirit roll (-2 at least), and being drunk cancels out that penalty. I mean ... this is volunteering to HAVE YOUR EYEBALL SCOOPED OUT. That freaks me out just thinking about it. (I have an overactive imagination. Gyah. My eye hurts now.)
Sometimes I think players are too quick to treat their characters as puppets on strings. It kind of reminds me about how a GM when I was in college was having trouble with the matter of how to handle the topic of torture in a game in a certain other RPG system. He could very well describe ghastly tortures, or even deduct damage points, but the players would just casually say, "Nope, nope! I'm not telling them a thing!" Then he handed out a PERMANENT decrease in a physical attribute as a side-effect of the maiming. Suddenly, according to the GM, "they were singing like jailbirds." (or something like that)
At times it just astounds me how some players don't think twice about all the horrible things that might happen to their character, just so long as it has no lasting impact on the numbers on the character sheet. Give someone a new power in exchange for maiming himself, however, and you have players racing to chop off a hand to put on that nifty neat-o magic hand. Maybe a Spirit roll doesn't "solve" that problem, but I feel like we should at least make a token tip of the hat toward, "Mayyyyybe your character wouldn't be so blase about going through with this, when he's under the surgeon's knife."
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GranFalloon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: |
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"So, Doc, I really do want this Mage Eye popped into my head. But let's face it, when you're coming at me with the ice cream scoop, I'm probably oing to freak the hell out. So we're gonna strap me down, the Grael is gonna hold my head in place, and you're gonna do your thing no matter how much I scream and beg, okay?"
"I feel like we should have a safeword. How about 'potato'? Or maybe, 'I changed my mind, don't rip my eyeball out'? Ok, yeah, we'll go with 'potato.'" |
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DustDevil
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 54
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: [50 Fathoms] Elective surgery on the Seven Seas? |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | So here's a weird one...
In last week's battle, the group found a Mage's Eyeball, a Relic that gives the bearer +8 to resist opposed Powers. The catch is that it only works when installed in an empty eye socket.
The dilemma: every PC still have all their eyes. But one of the PCs (the ship's mage and only character with the Healing Power) really, really wants to use it.
They also have a ship's surgeon with Skill: Healing d8 and the Healer Edge.
The question: how would you handle the surgery? What rules would you use? How much damage would the patient take? Any lasting effects? How can the character off-set any damage?
I have my own ideas, but I was wondering what other GMs would do.
Thanks! |
I'd handle it as a Heal check at -2, and a Fear check for everyone who witnesses it (including, and especially, the surgeon). Unless "anesthetized", the "patient" has to make a Spirit check to not freak out during the procedure and try to stop it (be it physically or verbally).
As an aside, DAMN, your players are either sadistic or incredibly power hungry. Or both.
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Snate56
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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On top of all this, he doesn't even know if it will work.
(Oh, yes, Head of Vecna was classic!  )
SteveN
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Lysander
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Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 414
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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There are so many evil side effects of having a mage eyeball in your cranium you could come up with that the RP value alone would be worth just letting it succeed except on a crit fail roll.
And what if the mage isn't really dead after all? He might want the eyeball back.
"Excuse me sir... You have my eyeball... and I'd like it back. I'd suggest a spoon to scoop it out...
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TheLoremaster
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, so much good stuff to comment on ... 
| JackMann wrote: | | Go ahead and give the player a wound penalty from the pain. |
Good idea, but how much? How much damage would removing someone's eye do? Figure a scalpel is going to do like Str+d4 damage, but since it's a head shot, it would probably be more like Str+d4+4. And, of course, this would ignore Armor.
But is that nasty enough?
| Zadmar wrote: | | The mage makes a Spirit roll, with a +2 bonus if he gets drunk first. On a failure he chickens out at the last minute, on a success he goes through with it but can't help squirming during the operation, on a raise he manages to keep still. |
Kudos for this one, I like the way you think. But why not call it what it is: a Fear check. It definitely falls in the Fear/Nausea side of the scale, and then he'd get any benefit of Brave or Grit or whatever. (Not applicable in 50 Fathoms, really, but still).
| Jordan Peacock wrote: | | At times it just astounds me how some players don't think twice about all the horrible things that might happen to their character, just so long as it has no lasting impact on the numbers on the character sheet. Give someone a new power in exchange for maiming himself, however, and you have players racing to chop off a hand to put on that nifty neat-o magic hand. Maybe a Spirit roll doesn't "solve" that problem, but I feel like we should at least make a token tip of the hat toward, "Mayyyyybe your character wouldn't be so blase about going through with this, when he's under the surgeon's knife." |
Exactly my point. I don't want to set a (potentially dangerous) precedent where there's little to no penalty to chopping off a major body part in the quest for more power. That should really be the purview of the irredeemably evil.
| GranFalloon wrote: | | "I feel like we should have a safeword. How about 'potato'? Or maybe, 'I changed my mind, don't rip my eyeball out'? Ok, yeah, we'll go with 'potato.'" |
ROFL! I can just see the character going, "Oh, God, potato! Potato! POTATOPOTATOPOTATOPOTATOPOTAAAAAAARRRRGGHHHH!!!!"
| DustDevil wrote: | | As an aside, DAMN, your players are either sadistic or incredibly power hungry. Or both. |
Yes, both.
| Snate56 wrote: | | On top of all this, he doesn't even know if it will work. |
Which is the best part! He specifically wants it because he thinks it will help in the fight against the Hags ... it won't.
So here's my Modest Proposal. If a player wants to willingly remove one of his character's body parts:
- If conscious for the procedure, the PC must make a Fear test vs. Fear/Nausea, or suffer the listed effects.
- The surgeon, and any surgical team members, must succeed in a Dramatic Task using Healing at -2.
- If any of the participants are not trained healers themselves, they must also succeed in a Fear Test each turn to continue assisting the surgeon.
- The surgeon deals Str+d4 damage to the patient for each turn in the Dramatic Task, modified by hit location. (So +4 damage for cranial surgery.) This can be Soaked normally (I should think; is Soaking a conscious action or not?)
- If the surgeon critically fails any of these rolls, the patient is Incapacitated with three Wounds, and must roll on the Incapacitation Table. Any Injuries are limited to the area being operated upon.
- If successful, the patient is Exhausted, and may only recover with rest.
- If failed, the patient is Incapacitated with 3 Wounds, in addition to being Exhausted, along with any other appropriately nasty effects.
Whaddya think, sirs?
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JackMann
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:00 am Post subject: |
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See, I don't think the procedure itself should be that tough. I mean, it'll be painful as hell for the character, but it shouldn't be difficult for the surgeon to remove the eye. It's a relatively simple task.
The hard part should be in the recovery. That's a great open wound right in his face that has to be kept clean until it's scarred up inside. Remember, it wasn't the surgery itself that was so fatal back in those days. It was the threat of infection that made surgery so dangerous.
As for the appropriate amount of wounding... I'd say just one automatic wound. Which doesn't go away until his eye heals up. That's a sufficient penalty, I think. |
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DustDevil
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 54
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | So here's my Modest Proposal. If a player wants to willingly remove one of his character's body parts:
- If conscious for the procedure, the PC must make a Fear test vs. Fear/Nausea, or suffer the listed effects.
- The surgeon, and any surgical team members, must succeed in a Dramatic Task using Healing at -2.
- If any of the participants are not trained healers themselves, they must also succeed in a Fear Test each turn to continue assisting the surgeon.
- The surgeon deals Str+d4 damage to the patient for each turn in the Dramatic Task, modified by hit location. (So +4 damage for cranial surgery.) This can be Soaked normally (I should think; is Soaking a conscious action or not?)
- If the surgeon critically fails any of these rolls, the patient is Incapacitated with three Wounds, and must roll on the Incapacitation Table. Any Injuries are limited to the area being operated upon.
- If successful, the patient is Exhausted, and may only recover with rest.
- If failed, the patient is Incapacitated with 3 Wounds, in addition to being Exhausted, along with any other appropriately nasty effects.
Whaddya think, sirs? |
Works for me. As long as they aren't aware of ANY of the risks going in, except maybe the wounds.
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DustDevil
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JackMann
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| DustDevil wrote: | | TheLoremaster wrote: | So here's my Modest Proposal. If a player wants to willingly remove one of his character's body parts:
- If conscious for the procedure, the PC must make a Fear test vs. Fear/Nausea, or suffer the listed effects.
- The surgeon, and any surgical team members, must succeed in a Dramatic Task using Healing at -2.
- If any of the participants are not trained healers themselves, they must also succeed in a Fear Test each turn to continue assisting the surgeon.
- The surgeon deals Str+d4 damage to the patient for each turn in the Dramatic Task, modified by hit location. (So +4 damage for cranial surgery.) This can be Soaked normally (I should think; is Soaking a conscious action or not?)
- If the surgeon critically fails any of these rolls, the patient is Incapacitated with three Wounds, and must roll on the Incapacitation Table. Any Injuries are limited to the area being operated upon.
- If successful, the patient is Exhausted, and may only recover with rest.
- If failed, the patient is Incapacitated with 3 Wounds, in addition to being Exhausted, along with any other appropriately nasty effects.
Whaddya think, sirs? |
Works for me. As long as they aren't aware of ANY of the risks going in, except maybe the wounds. |
Eh, don't keep them too much in the dark.
Keep in mind, they have a ship's surgeon. This is basically his job. Now, normally there's already damage by the time he gets to the patient, but removing eyes (or fingers, or hands, or even legs) is what he does. He knows what this will entail. He can and likely will tell them what to expect. He's almost certainly done this before (though admittedly, with eyes that were already badly injured).
Let them know what they're in for. Let them know not everyone makes it, even with the best of care. And then let them proceed. |
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GranFalloon
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:50 am Post subject: |
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I'm just picturing the modern pre-op briefing doctors always give, with the little charts and diagrams, except everything is filthy, the tools all of a questionable nature, the place is lit by a single guttering lantern, and it's all below decks of a swaying ship.
"So this is a relatively simple procedure. Basically I'm going to take these rusty pieces of metal and hook them onto your eyelids to hold them open. Then I'll take this knife and jam it into your eyeball. No, no, there's not a lot of need for scooping. We're not saving the eye, so we can just mess it all up.
Once all the gunk, or "eyeball humours" are removed, I'll pour boiling wine into the socket. Now, we do this because in ancient times, the Ugak gods cursed the blood of the people of this land, so that when exposed to air, it can be invaded by evil spirits. The boiling wine gets the spirits drunk so that they don't turn your humours green and kill you. I don't know if the curse applies to humans such as yourself, but it's best not to take chances, right?
For anesthetic, we have a couple of options. The best, of course, is Maluthian Opium, which is very expensive, as Maluth is now under the ocean. Or we can just have Thrawk over here hit you upside the head with a blunt object. That will keep you out, but will increase your recovery time. Really, it all depends on what your insurance will cover. What do you have, Kaiser?" |
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ValhallaGH
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| GranFalloon wrote: | I'm just picturing the modern pre-op briefing doctors always give, with the little charts and diagrams, except everything is filthy, the tools all of a questionable nature, the place is lit by a single guttering lantern, and it's all below decks of a swaying ship.
"So this is a relatively simple procedure. Basically I'm going to take these rusty pieces of metal and hook them onto your eyelids to hold them open. Then I'll take this knife and jam it into your eyeball. No, no, there's not a lot of need for scooping. We're not saving the eye, so we can just mess it all up.
Once all the gunk, or "eyeball humours" are removed, I'll pour boiling wine into the socket. Now, we do this because in ancient times, the Ugak gods cursed the blood of the people of this land, so that when exposed to air, it can be invaded by evil spirits. The boiling wine gets the spirits drunk so that they don't turn your humours green and kill you. I don't know if the curse applies to humans such as yourself, but it's best not to take chances, right?
For anesthetic, we have a couple of options. The best, of course, is Maluthian Opium, which is very expensive, as Maluth is now under the ocean. Or we can just have Thrawk over here hit you upside the head with a blunt object. That will keep you out, but will increase your recovery time. Really, it all depends on what your insurance will cover. What do you have, Kaiser?" |
Yeah, you should use this pretty much word for word.
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