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Fantasy military game - advice sought
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Thasmodious
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Fantasy military game - advice sought Reply with quote

I'm starting a new campaign in a month or so with the novice PCs being grunts in a mercenary army fighting on various sides of a war torn land. This will be the first fantasy campaign for the group with SW and the first time I've run a military based campaign. At the beginning, the PCs are just one among many, grunts with low rank, no status, freshly trained unknowns.

The long term plan is that the PCs will slowly rise in the ranks and the company will face an external threat to the world at large that they uncover and work to unite various warring factions into a functioning army to face this threat. The game will have lots of mass battles, as well as a lot of smaller missions carried out by the PCs and their squadmates, controlled as allies.

I'm building the company now, from the PCs unit outward with less detail as it moves further away - so their CO is fully statted, their squadmates will be made by them at character creation, their platoon detailed with names, roles and personalities from the SWD table, etc.

I've never ran a military focused game like this, so I'd love some tips and advice from those who have. Any good conversions, SW products to steal ideas from? Any good homebrew rules from anyone? Is the SWD mass combat rules robust enough, with the PC actions, to keep the battles interesting? What are the pitfalls to watch out for and the advantages to really dig into?
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PeteAtoms
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For sieges, I think the Fantasy Companion would be a good thing to check out. It details a few more options that PC's can take when they get involved with sieges/mass-battles.

Hellfrost also has a couple martial and mercenary groups in its setting that might provide some inspiration. The Glory system might also appeal to you.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weird War 2, by PEG, is a good resource. There's some solid 3-4 pages of or GM advice that would apply.
TAG's Necropolis setting should have a few gems. The 2350 book puts all their good advice in the player section, which always throws me; you may want to look over their 2355 update.
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kreider204
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might steal a trick or two from Caladon Falls.
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tigerguy786
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kreider204 wrote:
You might steal a trick or two from Caladon Falls.


Agreed.
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Nathan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as advice goes, you want to make sure that your characters don't lack agency. Playing within strict military ranks doesn't always give the characters a lot of freedom of choice, if the characters are going to stay within the confines of the original setup.

The smaller missions would help with that, obviously. I'd probably stay focused on those. Also, I wouldn't take the rise through the ranks too slowly.
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Thasmodious
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the FC and am actually opening the game with a siege, should be fun. I'll definitely have to check out Caladon Falls, sounds like the overall game is the same (PC soldiers, world spanning threat) and the .pdf price is right. Probably some good stuff in there.

Quote:
As far as advice goes, you want to make sure that your characters don't lack agency. Playing within strict military ranks doesn't always give the characters a lot of freedom of choice, if the characters are going to stay within the confines of the original setup.

The smaller missions would help with that, obviously. I'd probably stay focused on those. Also, I wouldn't take the rise through the ranks too slowly.


Fortunately, my group doesn't have a problem with some rails if it fits the narrative ("you are ordered to go here" "we go there"). Their line, and mine, is control of the characters. At first, I want the feeling to be that of small fish not entirely in control of their own fate. Eventually, they'll be the ones issuing orders and drawing battle plans, as well as taking on the diplomatic missions when the larger threat is revealed.

As for rising through the ranks, I plan on a fairly swift rise, both in the company ranks and in the SW ranks. Hopefully, it will play out naturally, as commanders and soldiers die, but I can help it along if needed.
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Nathan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, didn't mean to second guess your whole plot their.

I saw the word "military" and had a flashback to a truly horrible D20 modern game I was in. Suffice it to say that it takes some work to make guard duty on a military convoy any kind of fun.
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Thasmodious
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't take it that way at all, dude. I appreciate the advice. Player agency is definitely something to make sure I don't overlook with this one.
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Sadric
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second the recommendation of Hellfrost (players guide).
It has some good Edges that works in Mass Battle or a edge to coordinate a Archer company that shoots at a giant or dragon.
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warrenss2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds a lot like Glen Cook's The Black Company. They are books about a merc company in a fantasy setting.

You might get some good ideas from those. Pretty darn good books too.
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Snate56
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got one too, Try checking out Demontech: Onslaught by David Sherman.
About fantasy mercenaries given modern day training by a modern day Marine drill instructor!
http://www.amazon.com/Onslaught-Demontech-Book-David-Sherman/dp/0345443748/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332932357&sr=8-1

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warrenss2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some elements of ideas you might be able to use... (not all at once)

A mean NCO (non-commissioned officer) that hates the characters... he/she uses their position of authority to make life hard for the characters.

A well intended, but green, commanding officer that has to be shown how it really works by the characters... before his/her inexperience gets them all killed.

To get them in smallish combat situations have them make patrols and get ambushed.

There are some awesome military movies and books out there to steal ideas from too. They might not be "fantasy", but still great stuff.
One of my favorites - Zulu.
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PeteAtoms
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are their any good resources to draw inspiration for sieges from? The only things that pop into my mind are the LotR movies and Kingdom of Heaven.

Kingdom of Heaven does a better job of bringing the scope of the battle down to the soldier/grunt level, but not it's not perfect.
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warrenss2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about HERE for a starting place.

Then GOOGLE can help too.

Not too sure about siege movies... none spring to mind right away except the Alamo and the before mentioned Zulu. While they're not fantasy the elements of the movies can be used.
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PeteAtoms
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warrenss2 wrote:
How about HERE for a starting place.

Then GOOGLE can help too.

Not too sure about siege movies... none spring to mind right away except the Alamo and the before mentioned Zulu. While they're not fantasy the elements of the movies can be used.


I got reminded of the movie Troy from the wikipedia article.

And I totally forgot about the Alamo. Smile
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warrenss2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is the SWD mass combat rules robust enough...

You can always come up with something Savage, but different.

Maybe make use of the Savage Showdown rules for mass combat? Or still use the SW rules.

Make units like characters. Units are troops that are trained and armed the same way. Shorten the unit profiles to just the essential skills needed.

Pace
Fighting
Shooting
Damage by weapon type
Toughness
Moral

Other than this use the SW rules.

Units take damage just like characters would.

Shaken troops - same way.

As units take damage they have to roll their Moral "skill", adjusted by their wound modifier. Fail and the unit routs and is no longer a combat force in the battle until a leader/character can make use of some sort of Leadership Edge/Skill to rally them. Leave the inventiveness of exactly how to do this up to the player/character.

Units are destroyed/routed beyond all ability to rally when they're incapacitated. This does not mean everyone is dead... just hauling @$$ to safety. The GM can use this to save any player/character that was in the routing unit. It would be fun to roleplay them trying to get off the battle field in one piece.

Most of the Edges & Hindrances can still apply, just on a unit level.

Doing this you can make ANY type of unit. Elven Archers, Dwarven foot troops, etc... Plus you could translate any monsters from the bestiary in to units too.

Examples of various unit types...

Foot Archers
Pace 6 (+d6 run/charge)
Fighting d4 (daggers/short swords)
Shooting d8
Damage/range as per bow
Toughness 5 (plus whatever light armor)
Moral d6 (or higher... depends)

Knights (elite)
Pace (as per their steed)
Fight d10?
Shooting d4-2 (no missile weapons... maybe a thrown dagger?)
Damage per lace or sword
Toughness 8 (+3 plate armor)
Moral d10

There are plenty of free unit COUNTERS and PAPER TROOPS that can be used in the battles.

All this is just off the top of my head and more details would have to be worked out, but it is, imho, very do able.

All this would have your players pushing troops/units around on the table and keeping them involved in the battle more and any abstract mass combat would.
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Last edited by warrenss2 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:03 am; edited 2 times in total
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kaltorak
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I strongly recommend the Siege of Watchgap Keep (Hellfrost Adventure). Apart freaking awesome cardboard heroes also details a long siege (heroes being the defenders) which can give many good ideas on how to handle a similar situation.
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Snate56
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warrenss2 wrote:
Some elements of ideas you might be able to use... (not all at once)

A mean NCO (non-commissioned officer) that hates the characters... he/she uses their position of authority to make life hard for the characters.

A well intended, but green, commanding officer that has to be shown how it really works by the characters... before his/her inexperience gets them all killed.

To get them in smallish combat situations have them make patrols and get ambushed.

There are some awesome military movies and books out there to steal ideas from too. They might not be "fantasy", but still great stuff.
One of my favorites - Zulu.


I'm rather attached to Sharpe's Rifles, I was able to check it out from the library.
http://www.amazon.com/Sharpes-Rifles-Collection-Sean-Bean/dp/B000BF0DD8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1332961641&sr=8-3
I highly recommend this series even if you aren't running a game!


SteveN
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warrenss2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm rather attached to Sharpe's Rifles

Kick @&& movies and book series.

One of the rare times that Sean Bean doesn't get killed out.
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