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SlowGoSmith
Novice
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 13
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 Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: Couple Questions |
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New to the forum and had a couple questions.
1) Wanted to get back into Deadlands and wondered which would be better: trying to find all the Classic books and materials or get the new Reloaded version? I know all/most of the Classic stuff is in PDF format but do you also get access to the maps and things that used to come with some of the old box sets?
2)I've noticed that there's a lot of DL:R books and materials that seem to be PDF only. Were these books ever in print and will they be again soon or is a PDF copy the only way to get them?
Thanks in advance for any help given! |
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iamfanboy
Novice
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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It all depends on what you want from a game.
Deadlands Classic is complicated. it has a lot of options; a lot of spells, skills, edges and hindrances scattered throughout different books; a lot of information on all the settings; and moreover the rules are complicated - sometimes to no end. Also, the rules are LETHAL; I do not know how people managed to live through even a few games of Deadlands Weird West, let alone HOE.
Deadlands Reloaded is complex. While there are no lesser amount of things you can do in DLR, the rules are simplified - there's only one spell list, though each Arcane Edge gets access to different spells and oftentimes they have different trappings that change what the spell does (for example, the Huckster version of a spell creates a ring of fire instead of a wall of earth). Rather than character creation being a bunch of card pulling and hope you get good results, it uses a points-based system so heroes are better balanced to start with (though there IS an optional card creation system, though it does lead to... overpowered heroes... then again, IMHO heroes SHOULD be overpowered unless you're running a straight CoC game or a level 1 AD&D where the players start as farmers or something).
Personally, I so liked the DLR rules that, even after investing a couple hundred bucks into DLC books and even made a 'Player's Only' book that took some 3-4 days of work compiling the different edges/hindrances/skills and artificially aged the pages.
I threw that out and started over, because the rules are a pure refinement of Deadlands - taking out the complication and leaving in the complexity.
Though I will admit I don't much care for 'em retconning how Grimme died in the newest book compared to the HoE fluff... but The Flood book was more than worth it. |
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SlowGoSmith
Novice
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: Couple Questions |
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| Thanks for your input. Don't know much about Grimme but am surprised that he lived into HoE. How'd he do that? |
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Demonicuss Krinn
Seasoned
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Couple Questions |
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| SlowGoSmith wrote: | | Thanks for your input. Don't know much about Grimme but am surprised that he lived into HoE. How'd he do that? |
He didn't. HoE says Grimme died back in the Weird West time - and if you have The Flood, you know how and why.
As for your second question - far as I can recall, the pdf only books (The trail Guides and a few adventures, like Don't Drink the Water) may get a release. I know for sure the Trail Guides will get collected and released (because Cutter said so), but I think the adventures will stay pdf. |
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iamfanboy
Novice
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Couple Questions |
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| Demonicuss Krinn wrote: | | SlowGoSmith wrote: | | Thanks for your input. Don't know much about Grimme but am surprised that he lived into HoE. How'd he do that? |
He didn't. HoE says Grimme died back in the Weird West time - and if you have The Flood, you know how and why.
As for your second question - far as I can recall, the pdf only books (The trail Guides and a few adventures, like Don't Drink the Water) may get a release. I know for sure the Trail Guides will get collected and released (because Cutter said so), but I think the adventures will stay pdf. |
It says he died a little later - early 1900s, though it never specified an exact date, and was actually done in by some of his own Angels and buried underneath the Rock. Someone was working to resurrect him in HoE time. I was planning several adventures around it when.... I switched wholeheartedly over to DL:R and resolved to wait til they put out an HoE book.
Then I read through the Flood and was slightly disgruntled over the retcon, though admittedly it isn't a HUGE one that impacted any part of the world anyone would care about but me. :p
And frankly, I LIKE the pdf books because it lets me print out specific pages for the players-only without having to worry about their beady little eyes straying to things not meant for players.... |
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SlowGoSmith
Novice
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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So is DL:R continuing the timeline from Classic? I thought it was a whole new deal with the starting date just set a little later.
Also, would the Classic books still be useful for the background info and details? Or should I not bother since it sounds like they are changing things. Part of why I'm asking is because some of the old books, and most especially the box sets, are hard to find, expensive and not always complete if you can find them. |
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wanderingmystic
Seasoned
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Couple Questions |
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| iamfanboy wrote: | | Demonicuss Krinn wrote: | | SlowGoSmith wrote: | | Thanks for your input. Don't know much about Grimme but am surprised that he lived into HoE. How'd he do that? |
He didn't. HoE says Grimme died back in the Weird West time - and if you have The Flood, you know how and why.
As for your second question - far as I can recall, the pdf only books (The trail Guides and a few adventures, like Don't Drink the Water) may get a release. I know for sure the Trail Guides will get collected and released (because Cutter said so), but I think the adventures will stay pdf. |
It says he died a little later - early 1900s, though it never specified an exact date, and was actually done in by some of his own Angels and buried underneath the Rock. Someone was working to resurrect him in HoE time. I was planning several adventures around it when.... I switched wholeheartedly over to DL:R and resolved to wait til they put out an HoE book.
Then I read through the Flood and was slightly disgruntled over the retcon, though admittedly it isn't a HUGE one that impacted any part of the world anyone would care about but me. :p
And frankly, I LIKE the pdf books because it lets me print out specific pages for the players-only without having to worry about their beady little eyes straying to things not meant for players.... |
Just for reference it never says when he died, all it says it that the good guys won and he was killed, his body was then buried in his throne room.(marshals section Wasted West) Also says that he disappeared before 1900 (Jo's Journal Wasted West) Don't know where you got the time from or the idea that it was from his own members. I have all the HOE books and could not find any reference |
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ValhallaGH
Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4564
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| SlowGoSmith wrote: | So is DL:R continuing the timeline from Classic? I thought it was a whole new deal with the starting date just set a little later.
Also, would the Classic books still be useful for the background info and details? Or should I not bother since it sounds like they are changing things. |
Continuing the timeline. It's the same setting, with the continuing story, it just has new rules attached (the fourth or fifth set of rules: Classic, d20, GURPS, and Savage Worlds, with maybe another one or two I've forgotten about).
Among other things, this makes all the Classic materials really useful. Not pricelessly good, but a DL:R Marshal will rarely regret picking up a Classic book that has a lot of fluff text. However, time continues to pass in the Weird West, and information slowly becomes obsolete as the state of the West changes.
Good luck and have fun.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." |
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robert4818
Heroic
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1048
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| iamfanboy wrote: |
Though I will admit I don't much care for 'em retconning how Grimme died in the newest book compared to the HoE fluff... but The Flood book was more than worth it. |
Keep in mind, HOE's history isn't cannon for Deadlands, never was.
Remember, HOE was an alternate reality, one that is entirely different than any Deadlands Cannon. The primary difference is that HOE assumes Stone succeeded in the ritual he was attempting to do in the last part of the Devil's Tower adventure, and Deadlands Cannon goes off of the assumption that the posse stopped him. |
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jpk
Legendary
Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 2178
Location: Tazewell, East Tennessee, USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: Couple Questions |
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| SlowGoSmith wrote: | | 2)I've noticed that there's a lot of DL:R books and materials that seem to be PDF only. Were these books ever in print and will they be again soon or is a PDF copy the only way to get them? |
That depends on what you mean by "a lot" and by "books." There are only seven Deadlands: Reloaded products that I spot in electronic format only.
Don't Drink the Water, Saddle Sore, and For Whom the Whistle Blows are adventure modules that are only available as PDFs. While there's no particular plan to print those at this time, I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that they wouldn't get compiled somewhere along the lines or come out as a special item for some reason.
Murder on the Hellestromme Express is an adventure module available as a PDF, but it comes in a printed form included in the Deadlands Reloaded GM's Screen.
The three Deadlands Trail Guides that are currently available as PDFs are planned to be collected and released as a print product.
I suspect there's more Deadlands Classic that's only available as PDF or on the secondary collector's market than that.
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Joel Kinstle
Pinnacle Entertainment, www.peginc.com |
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Cutter XXIII
Legendary
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2763
Location: I dwell in the Village of Rock, MD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| robert4818 wrote: | | iamfanboy wrote: |
Though I will admit I don't much care for 'em retconning how Grimme died in the newest book compared to the HoE fluff... but The Flood book was more than worth it. |
Keep in mind, HOE's history isn't cannon for Deadlands, never was.
Remember, HOE was an alternate reality, one that is entirely different than any Deadlands Cannon. The primary difference is that HOE assumes Stone succeeded in the ritual he was attempting to do in the last part of the Devil's Tower adventure, and Deadlands Cannon goes off of the assumption that the posse stopped him. |
I wouldn't say it's entirely different from Deadlands canon. It's still a very possible future for the Weird West to head toward.
Which is to say... Stone's not done, and though it might have seemed like past and future all depended on that one event at Devils Tower, the Reckoners are actually pretty good at poker. Things aren't always what they seem.
The Reckoners mucked around with their own past, as we all know, and it sure seemed like it worked out for them. But the story of their past, the Weird West, isn't fully written yet. Therein lies the rub.
None of which has anything to do with the OP's question. 
_________________
Matthew Cutter
Deadlands Big Bug (Brand Manager)
Pinnacle Entertainment Group, Inc. |
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robert4818
Heroic
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1048
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Cutter XXIII wrote: | | robert4818 wrote: | | iamfanboy wrote: |
Though I will admit I don't much care for 'em retconning how Grimme died in the newest book compared to the HoE fluff... but The Flood book was more than worth it. |
Keep in mind, HOE's history isn't cannon for Deadlands, never was.
Remember, HOE was an alternate reality, one that is entirely different than any Deadlands Cannon. The primary difference is that HOE assumes Stone succeeded in the ritual he was attempting to do in the last part of the Devil's Tower adventure, and Deadlands Cannon goes off of the assumption that the posse stopped him. |
I wouldn't say it's entirely different from Deadlands canon. It's still a very possible future for the Weird West to head toward.
Which is to say... Stone's not done, and though it might have seemed like past and future all depended on that one event at Devils Tower, the Reckoners are actually pretty good at poker. Things aren't always what they seem.
The Reckoners mucked around with their own past, as we all know, and it sure seemed like it worked out for them. But the story of their past, the Weird West, isn't fully written yet. Therein lies the rub.
None of which has anything to do with the OP's question. |
Bah, like you KNOW anything.
 All I'm saying of course, is that a conflict between the two, HOE and Deadlands, isn't really much of a conflict because the timeline that lead to the HOE setting is distinct from deadlands (as far as I can tell) after the event in the adventure. That doesn't mean that the reckoner's can't still cause a NEW HOE, but the specific setting had a branch point starting there. So DLR is now on a different path (one that could of course still go badly). |
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ValhallaGH
Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4564
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| robert4818 wrote: | | All I'm saying of course, is that a conflict between the two, HOE and Deadlands, isn't really much of a conflict |
Actually, nothing in HOE conflicts with the Weird West.
Does HOE say who wins the Great Rail Wars? The core setting book admits that its own internal sources disagree. All the sources conflict, making the answer unknowable - despite pedantry that claims to know it.
Does HOE say when the Civil War ended? Again, the internal dates within the setting disagree. Two separate history books, from the same school system, will give different dates, because all the sources conflict.
In fact, every part of HOE that's based in the Weird West is fluid. The only certainties are what got printed in the Tombstone Epitaph - and you'll note that those are pretty vague. |
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SlowGoSmith
Novice
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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robert4818 wrote:
| Quote: | | The Reckoners mucked around with their own past, as we all know, and it sure seemed like it worked out for them. |
Are you talking about what (supposedly) happened at the end of Devil's Tower or is there something else they did? I don't know anything beyond who and what they are so anything about their past is a mystery to me.
Btw: I know all the Classic box sets are available for PDF but are the maps that used to come in those sets also part of the file or is it all just the text stuff?
And thanks to everyone for being so helpful! |
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robert4818
Heroic
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1048
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| SlowGoSmith wrote: | robert4818 wrote:
| Quote: | | The Reckoners mucked around with their own past, as we all know, and it sure seemed like it worked out for them. |
Are you talking about what (supposedly) happened at the end of Devil's Tower or is there something else they did? I don't know anything beyond who and what they are so anything about their past is a mystery to me.
Btw: I know all the Classic box sets are available for PDF but are the maps that used to come in those sets also part of the file or is it all just the text stuff?
And thanks to everyone for being so helpful! |
Well:
Spoiler,
| Code: |
I am specificially talking about the Devil's tower trilogy. The reckoner's cheated and sent stone back into the past. So right now there are two stones active in the world (unless that's changed and I missed it.) But yeah, HOE's specific background keys off of this point in deadlands. Its assumed (in HOE) that stone succeeded in using the Heart o' Darkness and turning the area around devils tower into a deadland. I believe DL:R works under the assumption that this particular event was stopped.
This means that DLR forward is on a separate timeline than HOE. Though one that could still turn into HOE, just with a different set of reckoner wins. This explains why The Flood didn't appear in HOE, as events probably turned out different after the ritual on Devils tower.
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ValhallaGH
Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4564
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | HOE assumes Stone did not succeed during the Heart o' Darkness trilogy. This is why there is not a deadland centered on the Devil's Tower.
However, Young Stone is explicitly not around. As explained in future Weird West story lines. |
Hell On Earth is a result of well-planned evil, and does not depend upon any single event. It's not inevitable, but nothing in the official story comes close to stopping it. In fact, the mixed results that come in most boxed-text ends to the various savage tales increase the likelihood of September 23, 2081 being a Very Bad Day.
SlowGo, the pdfs of the boxed sets tried to include everything the boxed sets did, including the maps. Some of the scans are ... disconcerting (missing pages in some cases) but almost all of the material is in most of them.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." |
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SlowGoSmith
Novice
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I also just noticed that the The Quick and the Dead source book isn't available in either print or PDF format in the Store section of the website. Anyone know why? This seems the only book not available. |
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Cutter XXIII
Legendary
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2763
Location: I dwell in the Village of Rock, MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SlowGoSmith wrote: | | I also just noticed that the The Quick and the Dead source book isn't available in either print or PDF format in the Store section of the website. Anyone know why? This seems the only book not available. |
Most if not all the content is reprinted in the Classic Marshal's Handbook.
If you're a completist, I see copies of it on eBay pretty often; that's where I got mine.
_________________
Matthew Cutter
Deadlands Big Bug (Brand Manager)
Pinnacle Entertainment Group, Inc. |
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newForumNewName
Heroic
Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 1784
Location: Broomfield, CO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutter XXIII wrote: | | If you're a completist |
Who isn't?
_________________
"I had a whole bunch of advice for you but got ninja'd by newForumNewName. I'd just do what he says." -- 77IM
"While nFNN could be less of a jerk about how he says what he says, what he says is essentially correct." -- ValhallaGH |
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SlowGoSmith
Novice
Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I read somewhere that Hellstromme's wife was a servant of one of the Reckoners. When and/or how did this happen (if it did)? |
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