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Trolls as a PC race

 
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Thasmodious
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Trolls as a PC race Reply with quote

So my group recently co-designed a fantasy world and I'm tasked with statting everything out since I'll be the first to GM this collaboration. I went with +6/-4 numbers for the races generally and most of them were pretty easy to do. Trolls are giving me some trouble, as is a couple other races with monster abilities. Anyone figured out +/- for the Monstrous Abilities in general?

In particular, what to do with a troll race? Would fast regeneration be too powerful for a player race? I thought about slow regeneration and maybe weakness to fire/acid as a negative. Where would these things rank on the Racial Abilities table and what form should the weakness take?
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SavageGamerGirl
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do this setting's trolls have to follow the d20 model of them having regeneration and vulnerability to fire?

Instead, why not just make them tougher (+1 Size) with a high Vigor (start at dCool. They'd be innately harder to hurt and more likely to succeed on a natural healing roll.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could even throw them the Fast Healer edge (or an equivalent ability), so they will make their natural healing rolls a lot more often. Essentially, they'll heal as quickly as a character can.
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Thasmodious
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SavageGamerGirl wrote:
Do this setting's trolls have to follow the d20 model of them having regeneration and vulnerability to fire?


The creator would prefer if it did. If I didn't go that route, the suggestions both of you would give would cover it nicely.
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The epic game/story/play/movie/book setting i created in HS had trolls, in fact the second story (@1984) had a troll on an adventure with his buddy a talking burro


Are there only one kind of troll my world had rock trolls with guitars and leather trolls in leather jackets with gressed back hair and stoned trolls in tie die
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, by the SPC guidelines, Fast Regeneration (each round) is worth triple the value of Construct. We know that construct is a +2 ability, so Fast Regeneration should be a +6 ability all by itself.
Weakness is generally prices as a -2 ability.
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Jordan Peacock
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:

Weakness is generally prices as a -2 ability.


One complication here is that if the creator is aiming for D&D trolls, I think their "weakness" to fire is only in that they don't regenerate from fire damage -- it's not that they're especially susceptible to it in the same way as, say, ice elementals or whatever.

Hence, I'm not sure there's a clean way to quantify it, but off the top of my head, if fast regeneration is a +6 ability, I'd price the caveat of "doesn't regenerate damage dealt by fire or acid" as reducing that cost to a "mere" +5. I'm just pulling numbers out of thin air, of course, but my personal opinion is that fast regeneration is an awfully POTENT ability (even with the fire/acid limitation) and ought to be priced accordingly.
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SavageGamerGirl
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That one's definitely going to be a tough one to balance if you want full-on round-by-round regeneration.

Another option would be to give trolls the Healing power as a racial ability, restricted in that they can only use it on themselves and can't use it to heal Wounds caused by fire.
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if your going to have troll Limb Regeneration ware they hold a severed arm against the stump and wait a few minutes for it to heal have fun with it

in my epic script for UFRMHC (Untitled female Russian monster hunter chick) Annastasia fights the Grendel gang behind sevensky elevensky and chops them into pieces and dumps them in a garbage bin. Later in the movie they come after her and they are in weird forms as the limbs and pieces got stuck in the wrong places.
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Thasmodious
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think slow regeneration would work. Make that, say, a +3 ability?

As for the weakness to fire/acid, what form should that take? Double damage seems high, maybe a static +2 or a +d6 if the damage is from that source.

Giving them the healing power wouldn't be a bad way to go, except that they couldn't self regenerate from incapacitated, but it's certainly an option.

vondan, I want to see that movie!
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damage from fire is slow regeneration
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Zadmar
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
Well, by the SPC guidelines, Fast Regeneration (each round) is worth triple the value of Construct. We know that construct is a +2 ability, so Fast Regeneration should be a +6 ability all by itself.

I'd be very wary about using Construct for such comparisons - it may be listed as a +2 racial ability, but as I've pointed out before, if you break it down into individual bonuses it's actually worth about +12. You'd be better off comparing other abilities and powers, eg:

Wall-Walker: +1 racial ability, 1 PP NE/SPC power.
Burrowing: +1 racial ability, 2 PP NE/SPC power.
Aquatic: +2 racial ability, 1 PP NE/SPC power.
Reach: +1 racial ability, 1 PP NE/SPC modifier.
Pace: Pace 10 is a +1 racial ability, Pace x2 is a 1 PP NE/SPC power.
Edge: +2 racial ability, 2 PP NE/SPC power.
Armour: +2 armour is a +2 racial ability, +3 armour is a 2 PP NE/SPC power.
Hardy: +3 racial ability, 4 PP NE/SPC modifier.
+1 Size: +2 racial ability, 2 PP NE/SPC power.
Flight: +2 racial ability, 2 PP NE/SPC power.

So while it's certainly not an exact science, I would generally treat a 1 PP NE/SPC power as a +1 racial ability. And True Regeneration is a 15 PP power.

However the Fast Regeneration power from SWD is actually quite a lot stronger, providing the following additional benefits:

1) It gives you +2 to recover from being Shaken (a +3 racial ability in its own right).
2) You regenerate two wounds on a raise (the SPC/NE power only lets you regenerate one wound).
3) It removes Incapacitated status (the SPC/NE power requires you to recover normally from incapacitation).
4) It allows you to regenerate even if you're dead.

It's difficult to place a value on all that, but suffice to say it's going to be a very expensive ability.

My suggestion would be to use Slow Regeneration, which I'd probably rate as a +2 ability.

On a related note, I've recently been putting together rules for my own custom fantasy setting, which includes various supernatural edges (inspired by 77IM's Arcane Abilities, but expanded). I've broken regeneration down into 6 edges:

Regeneration: You make a natural healing roll once per day instead of once every five days.
Regrowth (requires Regeneration): You no longer Bleed Out or suffer permanent injuries from being Incapacitated.
Enhanced Regeneration (requires Regeneration): You now make a natural healing roll once per hour, ignoring critical failures as well as raises.
Rapid Regeneration (requires Enhanced Regeneration): You may spend a benny to make a Vigor roll as a normal action. On a success you recover one wound. On a raise you also get your benny back. If you regenerate your last wound this way, you also remove your Shaken status (if any).
Subconscious Regeneration (requires Rapid Regeneration): Rapid Regeneration becomes a free action, and may also be performed while unconscious.
Innate Regeneration (requires Regeneration): You ignore natural healing modifiers except Faster Healer. Ignore wound penalties for natural healing and Rapid Regeneration rolls.
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently made a game of evil races for evil PCs and two noteworthy monsters who were missing were Trolls and Vampires. Both of them proved to be too much for the race creator to bear.

My advice for creating a troll would be to boil down what you want to represent to 2 or 3 things MAX and then go about representing them.

IMO (your's surely will vary) Trolls are Strong, Regenerate, and are Vulnerable to fire.


This will slighting break your 6/4 ratio, but I would go with:

Bonuses
Strong (D6 Strength) +2
Regeneration (Racial Power: Healing w/ 10 power points +3
Big (+1 Size) +2

Penalties
Weakness: Fire (SPC Major Hindrance) -2
Stupid (Smarts requires 2 pts at creation) -2
Slimy and smelly (-2 Charisma) -1


Alternatively you could start him with d6 Vigor since the Healing roll will work off of Vigor.
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

could you offset by a penalty of two raises to raise smarts
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VonDan wrote:
could you offset by a penalty of two raises to raise smarts


I was just using the Fantasy Companion with no tweaks at all. I mean, that doesn't sound too out of whack to me, but I was trying to be "by the book" to give him something to work from.
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pariah74 wrote:
VonDan wrote:
could you offset by a penalty of two raises to raise smarts


I was just using the Fantasy Companion with no tweaks at all. I mean, that doesn't sound too out of whack to me, but I was trying to be "by the book" to give him something to work from.


I wasn't really looking at your entry but looking again i see you had that same idea in creation

Is there a penalty on the books for creatures with a slow smarts progression after creation
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Zadmar
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VonDan wrote:
Is there a penalty on the books for creatures with a slow smarts progression after creation

In both SWD and FC:

Attribute costs 2 points per die step to increase during creation (-2)
Attribute costs 2 points/advances per die step to increase during creation and during play (-3)
Attribute can never exceed d6 (-3)

The first two are obviously mutually exclusive, but I guess you could take the third with one of the other two.
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought there should be

For a Slipstream NPC I created a hindrance called

"Im not dumb my planet has no education system (major) Double the cost to raise smarts"

So I could break the d6 smarts limit for a nerdy Memnite librarian

http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22813
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