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Stan Shinn Novice
Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 57 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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I loved the way OD&D, 1st Edition D&D modules and LBB Traveller had a shorthand method for stat blocks, and I’d love to see something similar as an option for Savage Worlds adventures. While I would want full statblocks for Wildcard adversaries or important NPCs, for less important Extras (minor NPCs, lesser monsters and minions) I’d favor a statblock like this which you could include in your adventure text:
| Quote: | | Sailors (2, plus 2 per hero) [6s, Parry: 2; Edges: Steady Hands; Gear: 2 black powder pistols, long sword]. |
As opposed to the full statblock like this:
| Quote: | Sailor (2, plus 2 per hero)
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d6, Spirit d4, Strength d6,
Vigor d6
Skills: Fighting d4, Knowledge (Trade) d6+, Notice d4, Shooting d6
Charisma: 0; Pace: 6; Parry: 2; Toughness: 5
Hindrances: –
Edges: Steady Hands
Languages: Local language.
Gear: Two black powder pistols (5/10/20; 2d6+1; RoF 1; Shots 1; 2 actions to reload), long sword (Str+d8). |
I think this shorthand notation is easier to scan, takes up less space, and allows you to embed it inside a paragraph of adventure text if you like.
The ‘6s’ notation means you use a 6 or d6 for all Traits, with Charisma being 0, and any exceptions to this are listed separately. ‘8s’ would mean using 8 and d8 for all non-Charisma Traits. If Extras have no Hindrances, Edges or Gear, those parts are left out. The format thus follows this format:
<Name> (<Number Appearing>) [<Traits rated as 6s or 8s, Exceptions to 6s or 8s>; <Hindrances>; <Edges>; <Languages (if important)>; <Gear (if important)>].
Alternately, you could expand the shorthand to include any rules descriptions you think are helpful:
| Quote: | | Sailors (2, plus 2 per hero) [6s, Parry: 2; Edges: Steady Hands (Unstable platform Fighting penalty negated); 2 black powder pistols (5/10/20; 2d6+1; RoF 1; Shots 1; 2 actions to reload), long sword (Str+d8)]. |
Thoughts? I know people are doing variations of this informally when prepping for games or making NPCs up on the fly, but I’d love to see a standard notation for this and perhaps see it in future commercially published adventures.
I wonder if Combat Rating (CR) is something worth including as well? |
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TheLoremaster Heroic

Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 1912 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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While I think you might have a good idea, there's a couple of reasons why these abbreviated stat blocks aren't used any more. Firstly, rules have expanded to the point where more detail is necessary, but secondly, abbreviated stat blocks can be slower. You need to know what the abbreviations mean, then translate them back to that meaning in order to use the information. That adds a layer of mental processing that can slow you down.
I'd be curious to see other people's reactions to this, however. I know that, when pressed for an NPCs stats, I'll say, "He just has d6s in everything", even though that's not really true. The guardsman you just met probably doesn't have Spellcasting: d6, after all.
| Eli Shinn wrote: | | The ‘6s’ notation means you use a 6 or d6 for all Traits, with Charisma being 0, and any exceptions to this are listed separately. ‘8s’ would mean using 8 and d8 for all non-Charisma Traits. If Extras have no Hindrances, Edges or Gear, those parts are left out. |
I also noted that your one liner didn't include the low values, and should probably always include Parry and Toughness. I took a pass at it and got this:
| Quote: | | Sailors (2+2 per PC): Spi:d4, Fi: d4, K(Trade), Not:d4, Shoot:d6, Par: 2, Tou: 5, Steady Hands, 2 pistols (5/10/20; 2d6+1; RoF 1; Shots 1; Rel:2), long sword (Str+d8 ) |
Whaddya think? _________________ "Your GM is metagaming ... and wrong!" |
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Stan Shinn Novice
Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 57 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | I'd be curious to see other people's reactions to this, however. I know that, when pressed for an NPCs stats, I'll say, "He just has d6s in everything", even though that's not really true. The guardsman you just met probably doesn't have Spellcasting: d6, after all. :)
...
Whaddya think? |
Part of what I'm doing (which I didn't explain well) is that I'm actually rounding the Traits up or down to be 6s and d6s. For Skills, I'm making the assumption that if a skill comes up they would logically have, it would be a d6 for that, or, if they'd likely not have it, they'd go with the normal d4-2 for untrained. If the NPC has magic abilities I'd probably be stat'ing them out as a Wild Card.
So in my example above, this character:
| Quote: | | Sailors (2, plus 2 per hero) [6s, Parry: 2; Edges: Steady Hands; Gear: 2 black powder pistols, long sword (Str+d8)]. |
Would be run like this:
| Quote: | Sailor (2, plus 2 per hero)
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d6, Spirit d6, Strength d6, Vigor d6
Skills: Fighting d6, Notice d6, Shooting d6 (other skills added on fly as needed at either d6 or d4-2)
Charisma: 0; Pace: 6; Parry: 2; Toughness: 6
Hindrances: –
Edges: Steady Hands
Languages: Local language.
Gear: Two black powder pistols (5/10/20; 2d6+1; RoF 1; Shots 1; 2 actions to reload), long sword (Str+d8). |
Note that everything is at 6 or d6 but Parry, and Parry being at 2 is noted as an exception.
So I'm not really suggesting abbreviations, it's really more rounding and leaving out anything that isn't a 6/d6 (or for stronger characters, a 8/d8). |
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Sean-Khan Seasoned

Joined: 19 May 2010 Posts: 490 Location: Finland, Tampere
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: |
| Quote: | | Sailors (2+2 per PC): Spi:d4, Fi: d4, K(Trade), Not:d4, Shoot:d6, Par: 2, Tou: 5, Steady Hands, 2 pistols (5/10/20; 2d6+1; RoF 1; Shots 1; Rel:2), long sword (Str+d8 ) |
Whaddya think? |
That's quite good, although some of the skill abbreviations look still a bit cryptic and may take a bit longer to open up. Ignoring d6 attributes is way to go.
I've myself used generalized skill ranks (primary/secondary/other relevant, eg. d10/d8/d4) but if you want something more specific I guess actual skill names must be used. _________________
Shaper & Maker - modelling, gaming & a lot of other stuff |
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SavageGamerGirl Heroic

Joined: 24 Oct 2010 Posts: 1253
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| Eli Shinn wrote: | | Note that everything is at 6 or d6 but Parry, and Parry being at 2 is noted as an exception. |
Maybe I'm missing something, but if he has a d6 Fighting why is his Parry only 2? _________________ 'But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: 'we're all mad here.'
The Order of the Dice... OF DOOM! |
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Stan Shinn Novice
Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 57 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| SavageGamerGirl wrote: | | Maybe I'm missing something, but if he has a d6 Fighting why is his Parry only 2? |
Typo on my part -- I didn't do the math on this character build! |
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Vinzent Veteran

Joined: 13 Mar 2009 Posts: 759 Location: Seattle WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I use the full Stat blocks on 3x5 cards. That way, once I make an enemy card I can keep it in a folder and use it again later. That way when I'm writing up an adventure I don't have to put the stat blocks into the document. I just have to say 2x Storm Samurai per hero. _________________ My Savage Worlds Blog
Get off the Human reservation. Read The Starrunner by C.B. Jones |
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ValhallaGH Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 4452
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| SavageGamerGirl wrote: | | Eli Shinn wrote: | | Note that everything is at 6 or d6 but Parry, and Parry being at 2 is noted as an exception. |
Maybe I'm missing something, but if he has a d6 Fighting why is his Parry only 2? |
And if he's got "6s" then why does the full block have Fighting d4? _________________ "Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." |
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Thasmodious Seasoned

Joined: 01 Aug 2009 Posts: 289
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I shorthand in a very similar format to Eli's, I just don't know how well that would work for an industry standard. My lines are meant to jog my memory and make on the fly combats easy, so they assume a lot of inside knowledge on the readers part.
I keep any stat lines I make in a file and I have a sheet of generics I keep in my GM folder at the ready - typical guard/thug, typical soldier, skilled fighter, brute, typical monsters for the setting, etc. For example of a more complex one, here's my shorthand for:
Generic 4 legged beast (animal); (d6-d12; fight/not d ; (p:6 t:6+s); (nat: str+d6)
Pounce/Gore/Charge: 1d6" +4a/d -2parry
Frenzy: 2 attacks no pen
GFTT: hit most vulnerable area on raise
Hug: hit with raise - pins
With a small statblock like that I have everything from wolves to bears to the great cats or whatever else covered. All I have to do is think is it stronger or faster and give it a boost to agi or str, raise toughness by size (I keep the size chart on the same page), and pick the abilities that make sense. The rest is flavor. _________________ There's more than seventy earths spinning 'bout the galaxy and the meek have inherited not a one. |
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Sean-Khan Seasoned

Joined: 19 May 2010 Posts: 490 Location: Finland, Tampere
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Vinzent wrote: | | I use the full Stat blocks on 3x5 cards. That way, once I make an enemy card I can keep it in a folder and use it again later. That way when I'm writing up an adventure I don't have to put the stat blocks into the document. I just have to say 2x Storm Samurai per hero. |
I see a missed opportunity here. Wild cards on their own cards, 3 extras of similar theme (Town militia spearman, sergeant & crossbowman) on other cards? _________________
Shaper & Maker - modelling, gaming & a lot of other stuff |
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Stan Shinn Novice
Joined: 23 Apr 2009 Posts: 57 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| ValhallaGH wrote: | | And if he's got "6s" then why does the full block have Fighting d4? |
The full stat block I gave as an example shows what a normal stat block looks like before rounding to 'all 6's. Then I later show that the shorthand statblock (with all 6s) gets run like the statblock below (rounding everything to 6 or d6 except Charisma, and things like Parry ). So this 6's shorthand:
| Quote: | | Sailors (2, plus 2 per hero) [6s, Parry: 5, Toughness: 5; Edges: Steady Hands; Gear: 2 black powder pistols, long sword]. |
Gets run like this:
| Quote: | Sailor (2, plus 2 per hero)
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d6, Spirit d6, Strength d6, Vigor d6
Skills: Fighting d6, Notice d6, Shooting d6 (other skills added on fly as needed at either d6 or d4-2)
Charisma: 0; Pace: 6; Parry: 5; Toughness: 5
Hindrances: –
Edges: Steady Hands
Languages: Local language.
Gear: Two black powder pistols (5/10/20; 2d6+1; RoF 1; Shots 1; 2 actions to reload), long sword (Str+d8). |
And an 8's example would have shorthand like this:
| Quote: | | Sailors (2, plus 2 per hero) [8s, Pace: 6, Parry: 6, Toughness: 6; Edges: Steady Hands; Gear: 2 black powder pistols, long sword]. |
And gets run like this:
| Quote: | Sailor (2, plus 2 per hero)
Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d8, Spirit d8, Strength d8, Vigor d8
Skills: Fighting d8, Notice d8, Shooting d8 (other skills added on fly as needed at either d8 or d4-2)
Charisma: 0; Pace: 6; Parry: 6; Toughness: 6
Hindrances: –
Edges: Steady Hands
Languages: Local language.
Gear: Two black powder pistols (5/10/20; 2d6+1; RoF 1; Shots 1; 2 actions to reload), long sword (Str+d8). |
Sorry if my math typo earlier threw anyone off :-) |
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ValhallaGH Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 4452
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| Eli Shinn wrote: | | ValhallaGH wrote: | | And if he's got "6s" then why does the full block have Fighting d4? |
Sorry if my math typo earlier threw anyone off  |
Nah, I was just being a smart ass. Because I am. ... One day I should see if they make a pill to correct that.  _________________ "Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." |
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TheLoremaster Heroic

Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 1912 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean-Khan wrote: | | I see a missed opportunity here. Wild cards on their own cards, 3 extras of similar theme (Town militia spearman, sergeant & crossbowman) on other cards? |
Since I'm contractually obligated to (not really ), I must point out that Metacreator outputs very nicely to 3x5 cards already. I have a few boxes full of the cards I've generated over time. Wild Cards get their own card, each group of other NPC types get one of their own. Initiative cards get dealt right on top of the reference card, or tucked underneath if I need to see their stats.
The great bit comes when the players recruit allies, and I can just toss the appropriate card across the table to them. Even better, if a PC is eliminated, I toss the Wild Card to that player so he doesn't feel left out.
If I'm having a really good night, all my cards get assigned to players, and I can sit back, put my heels up, and let them tell me how it all works out ...  _________________ "Your GM is metagaming ... and wrong!" |
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operations Seasoned

Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Posts: 230 Location: St Louis, MI
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | I'll say, "He just has d6s in everything", even though that's not really true. The guardsman you just met probably doesn't have Spellcasting: d6, after all.
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Easy way to fix that, "He has d6 in everything that matters to his job." _________________ ~~KT~~ |
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Vinzent Veteran

Joined: 13 Mar 2009 Posts: 759 Location: Seattle WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean-Khan wrote: | | Vinzent wrote: | | I use the full Stat blocks on 3x5 cards. That way, once I make an enemy card I can keep it in a folder and use it again later. That way when I'm writing up an adventure I don't have to put the stat blocks into the document. I just have to say 2x Storm Samurai per hero. |
I see a missed opportunity here. Wild cards on their own cards, 3 extras of similar theme (Town militia spearman, sergeant & crossbowman) on other cards? |
Here is the pdf of the cards I use. They were inspired by Telas from Gnome Stew. _________________ My Savage Worlds Blog
Get off the Human reservation. Read The Starrunner by C.B. Jones |
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jpk Legendary
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 2156 Location: Tazewell, East Tennessee, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| ValhallaGH wrote: | Nah, I was just being a smart ass. Because I am. ... One day I should see if they make a pill to correct that.  |
I suspect any medication for that condition is likely to be in a suppository form...
 |
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Timon Heroic

Joined: 21 Feb 2011 Posts: 1075 Location: Haarlem in the Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Proposal for Extras Statblock Shorthand |
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| jpk wrote: | | ValhallaGH wrote: | Nah, I was just being a smart ass. Because I am. ... One day I should see if they make a pill to correct that.  |
I suspect any medication for that condition is likely to be in a suppository form...
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The cure exists, it is administered backside the head and I am married to it. _________________ Biting! It's like kissing but there's a winner!
The Doctor's Wife |
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