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UmbraLux
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 670
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: How have FATE style Aspects in Savage Worlds worked out? |
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Using FATE aspects has been discussed in the past - I remember being concerned over their affect on the benny economy. I don't remember seeing many comments by people who had used them.
So, if you have used aspects in Savage Worlds, how did it work?
- How many did you use?
- What bonus did you give for aspect use? (+1, +2, something else?)
- What percentage of bennies got spent on aspect use vs other things?
- Did players run out/low or tend to have a surplus of bennies?
- Did you use aspects for anything other than characters?
- What's the best/worst affect on the game from using them? |
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Arete
Novice
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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I have not used aspects but that is because the bennies do the same thing.
I have playedf fate though and I have overlaid aspects into several games.
I would not change the base effects of bennies on dice roles, and just allow aspects to generate/cost bennies for narrative effects. Also keep in mind you can use aspects as a character building exersie and they do not have to have any direct effect on the game. Just keep them in mind as a GM and reward the players more bennies when thy play out flaws. |
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The Dread Polack
Seasoned
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 393
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: Re: How have FATE style Aspects in Savage Worlds worked out? |
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| UmbraLux wrote: | | Using FATE aspects has been discussed in the past - I remember being concerned over their affect on the benny economy. I don't remember seeing many comments by people who had used them. |
I'll assume that if you're talking about using aspects in SW, then you do actually want them to have a direct effect on the game. I would disagree that bennies do the same thing. They go part of the way, but not all the way.
I haven't actually tried it, but here's my thoughts.
| UmbraLux wrote: | | - How many did you use? |
I always thought 12 was a lot. 6, like they use in Dresden Files, seems right.
| UmbraLux wrote: | | - What bonus did you give for aspect use? (+1, +2, something else?) |
I'd start with +2 for invoking an aspect, +1 for generic use, but that might be too much. You'd have to play around with it.
| UmbraLux wrote: | | - Did you use aspects for anything other than characters? |
I'd use scene aspects too, at least.
| UmbraLux wrote: | | - What's the best/worst affect on the game from using them? |
In my Dresden files game, the best part of it was that it really encouraged people to roleplay their character. Since you get an actually mechanical advantage out of playing your character's aspects, it's strategically adventageous. Also, as GM, I liked that it got the players involved in directing the story, although not all GMs like that.
Having not actually tried it in SW, I feel like it wouldn't really affect the game too negatively. I think the trick is that how you're going to handle edges & hindrances along with Aspects. Will normal hindrances still get you bennies? Will edges subtract from total bennies like taking powers in Fate? Not sure exactly how I'd handle this, myself.
The Fate system is really designed, I think, for a different game mechanic. Fate is more narrative than tactical, and by mashing it together with SW, you've got parralel mechanics for 2 different things going on at the same time, and it could get a little weird, but I think it just might work.
I, too, would be interested in hearing how it works for you, and how it has worked for others. |
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UmbraLux
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 670
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Had hoped to hear from some who had imported aspects to a Savage Worlds game. How to do so seemed to be a bit of a theme a year or so ago.
For the record, I've been GMing FATE (Dresden Files) since my Deadlands game ended last year. While fun, it doesn't hit the tactical spot SW does. Kinda wondered about merging the two.  |
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Cloud Divider
Seasoned
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 164
Location: Yuma, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: Re: How have FATE style Aspects in Savage Worlds worked out? |
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I first introduced Aspects into my Savage Worlds games about...4 years ago when I first started running Savage Eberron. I've since carried it forwards to my current Rogue Stars campaign (a Mass Effect/Eclipse Phase/Traveller mashup).
The results are a little bit mixed, for reasons I'll get into below.
| UmbraLux wrote: | | Using FATE aspects has been discussed in the past - I remember being concerned over their affect on the benny economy. I don't remember seeing many comments by people who had used them. |
Your concerns are well founded. The biggest issue is that the "core" use of Bennies (Soak and Rerolls) makes them MUCH more mechanically "important" than FATE points (which generally give you a bonus, but only under certain conditions - ie tagging an Aspect). IMO, anyway.
So in the first couple sessions where Bennies = FATE Points, nary a FATE point was spent, because saving Bennies to become Not Dead was generally much more...preferable to the players.
| Quote: | So, if you have used aspects in Savage Worlds, how did it work?
- How many did you use? |
I've since gone to having two types of Bennies (I use poker chips). Red Bennies are the traditional bennies (auto-Unshake, Soak, Reroll), and Blue Bennies are basically FATE points. I give 3 of each at the start of each session, and I'm generally much more generous with passing out Blues.
| Quote: | | - What bonus did you give for aspect use? (+1, +2, something else?) |
I use a +2 bonus. Less, and you sort of removes some of the appeal. It's also typically enough to give you an auto-success (unless you just roll really, really poorly), or a very high chance of a Raise. Which feels about right, if you're using Aspects to describe where your character dramatically excels (or fails, if I'm Invoking an Aspect).
If you hand out lots and lots of Blues (...the players shoulder a lot of the responsibility here), you can probably get by with a +1.
| Quote: | | - What percentage of bennies got spent on aspect use vs other things? |
Before I split my bennies into two flavors, about 0% were used as Tags, and 100% were used traditionally. Now that I've split the pool, I get close to 100% expenditures of both pools on a "good night" (in other words, each player spends at least 3 Blues and 3 Reds). There's a lot more churn of Blues on a typical game session for us (we usually end the night with most players having spent 1-2 Reds, and 2-3 Blues).
| Quote: | | - Did players run out/low or tend to have a surplus of bennies? |
In general, I think I've got it calibrated reasonably well at this point.
In terms of the economy, having two flavors of Bennies gives me the opportunity/excuse to tailor the reward to the action. A character with the "Alcoholic" Hindrance/Aspect may only get a Blue if a Compel or a Disadvantageous Tag is a mild complication (e.g. "When we arrive, I head straight to the nearest bar," or "I special order two cases of Denebian Brandy, and fork over 500 credits for the privilege." The former may not even get a Blue). However, he might get a Red if it were really disadvantageous, "Because he'd spent the last night in a bar/in his cabin drinking the Denebian Brandy, he shows up at the contract negotiation Hung Over or still Mildly Inebriated (Fatigued as a minimum, social implications may instead be equivalent to Mean...I wouldn't do both, though).
| Quote: | | - Did you use aspects for anything other than characters? |
Yes, I usually have Situational Aspects ready to tag - "Dimly Lit" "Factory Floor" and so on.
| Quote: | | - What's the best/worst affect on the game from using them? |
Best effect - Players get a lot more ability to "show off" their characters in play. Aspects give you an excuse to bring up your character's background, habits, strengths and weaknesses. Being rewarded by getting Bennies back by Tagging/Compelled helps.
Worst Effect - it doesn't work as well as I'd always hoped. All of my players are pretty "traditionalist" - we've all played RPGs for 15-20 years or so. There are a LOT of grinding gears when it comes to this "new fangled" concept of "Player Authorship". Spending Blues to make Declarations doesn't happen as often as I'd like, and Disadvantageous Tagging (ie "making my character's life more difficult") is...a really difficult habit to get into.
Here's some discussion on the implementation, and some of the problems I've had to deal with (with various degrees of success):
1) Aspects, Edges, and Hindrances have a LOT of conceptual overlap, but there's also spots where Edges and Hindrances DO work differently. Some Hindrances are best represented by Aspects (Heroic, Curious, Mean). Others less-so; for instance, if "Bad Eyes" was an Aspect, you'd theoretically earn a hojillion Blues in a typical firefight, because that -2 penalty would hit every attack roll. Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not the "upside" or "downside" to that Edge/Hindrance has a mechanical effect. Two Fisted: Totally an Edge. Attractive: Aspect may work better. Lame: Hindrance. Greedy: Aspect. Outsider: Aspect. Ultimately, I think it comes down to whether that Edge/Hindrance is situational (and potentially optional), and how often it comes up.
I've sort of tried to resolve that by keeping Edges/Hindrances, and Aspects separated. But Disadvantageous Aspects count towards Hindrances, but it can still be a bit messy.
2) Critical Mass of Aspects. I think you need a pretty good number of Aspects (at least 5) before you have enough that can be Tagged or Compelled on a regular basis. And you NEED to have enough so they get used enough that the habit doesn't atrophy. That's probably my biggest stumbling block - the players are really good at using Blues for the things that they use them for (limited authorial rewrites), but not as much for Tags. The former's generally easier than the latter to work with...
3) Quality of Aspects. This is a really tough one to get right, until you've had a lot of time playing with FATE/Aspects. Bad aspects work against you (they rarely come up, or come up TOO much). And a handful of good aspects are better than a dozen bad ones...
4) My players have generally "taken the easy way out" with the "Authorial Rewrite/Declarations," rather than proper Aspect use. For instance, if the scene has a written (or unwritten) "Automated Robotic Factory," they'll spend Blues to find "compressed gas canisters," or "robotic forklift control nodes" and so on. Which they proceed to use in the scene to do Dramatically Fun Stuff. That stuff is **cool** in gameplay. But it's not using Aspects the way they're "intended," I guess.
5) Related to (4). There is a LOT of responsibility on the players' shoulders to make Aspects and the associated FATE-point/Blue Bennie economy work right. If they don't remember to Tag/Compel, their bennie flow stagnates. Savage Worlds already has a LOT going on, mechanically, and it's really easy to "forget" about Aspects. But that's the outcome I'd sort of expect for a game mechanics graft from another game...
6) A lot of the fault is mine, too. I'm certainly not nearly as good at remembering to Compel aspects as often as I could be. So there's not as much reinforcement of the rules as there could be. I need to keep lists of each PC's Edges, Hindrances, and Aspects handy, so I can have something to refer to. By having the material to refer to, I can bring it up more often...
7) It's tempting to allow "awarded" Bennies to roll over between sessions. There've been a lot of situations where some really neat roleplay happened at the very end, and the Bennies they were rewarded with never got used. |
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Captain Alain Masseri
Novice
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 24
Location: Tenerife, Spain
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hi there, you can find my take on Aspects for Savage Worlds here:
http://savageworldsofadventure.blogspot.com.es/search/label/House%20Rules
In essence, when someone invokes his Aspect/Quality in disadvantageous way, gets a bennie. Also, if they invoke the Aspect/Quality for a roll and spend a bennie, they can roll a 1d6(acing) and add to the Trait roll. This can be used for damage rolls too, if appropiate.
Simple and fast. It adds the mechanics to get bennies for Hindrances to a new level, and also give another character-related way of using bennies.
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"After this one i totally getting my Goliath Skin"
-Captain Alain Masseri
"First you need to come out alive"
-Captain Jack Pinto of the Charioteers
Adventure! Action! Amusement! |
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TTM
Novice
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| My group absolutely hated it when we tried introducing Aspects. We had similar issues with the FATE system in general, as well as the extremely predictable probability curve of the resolution system, but that's just personal preference. Aspects just ended up detracting from the game, as we a) had to come up with them from scratch and b) it became a game of 'come up with an excuse to use to tag one of your aspects'. |
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