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Sean Patrick Fannon
Heroic
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1554
Location: Huntsville, AL
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 Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloodwork wrote: | | I don't understand why people make lightsaber-usage rules so complicated. They're not magic, just tech that is dangerous to use. |
Respectfully, I believe your understanding of lightsabers is flawed. They are "magical" in nature, in that their entire construction and function is entirely connected to the Force. This is canon, not just my opinion.
As well, the immense effectiveness and power of such weapons requires complex rules to ensure that they don't end up the "weapon of choice" for everyone in the Galaxy. A mere "1 on the Fighting die" penalty doesn't cut it for any Wild Card; that's what Bennies are for.
In order to enforce the genre convention (trope, if you prefer) that only Jedi and "special characters" are regularly wielding lightsabers, it is necessary to make sure such characters have to jump through some serious hoops to get to that point.
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Sean Patrick Fannon
Evil Beagle Games
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Bloodwork
Seasoned
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Don't get me wrong, I respect your work and it looks like a lot of time and effort has gone into this conversion. My issue is not with your work but how people approach converting Star Wars itself.
| Sean Patrick Fannon wrote: |
Respectfully, I believe your understanding of lightsabers is flawed. They are "magical" in nature, in that their entire construction and function is entirely connected to the Force. This is canon, not just my opinion. |
If we start arguing what is and is not canon we'll be here all day.
| Sean Patrick Fannon wrote: | | As well, the immense effectiveness and power of such weapons requires complex rules to ensure that they don't end up the "weapon of choice" for everyone in the Galaxy. A mere "1 on the Fighting die" penalty doesn't cut it for any Wild Card; that's what Bennies are for. |
A lightsaber wielded by a "regular" person without Deflection is not effective if the other guy has a blaster. And Slipstream seems to include laser swords in its game world just fine and it has no penalty except roleplaying ones, which is the example we should follow.
| Sean Patrick Fannon wrote: |
In order to enforce the genre convention (trope, if you prefer) that only Jedi and "special characters" are regularly wielding lightsabers, it is necessary to make sure such characters have to jump through some serious hoops to get to that point. |
Inventing a rule just to enforce a trope is crazy. The GM enforces it in the NPCs and the players should be responsible enough to realise they are playing Star Wars. If the smuggler, bounty hunter and princess are all armed with lightsabers from fallen sith foes, you have a problem with your players.
Every time you make a new rule for the, as you say, "special characters" you marginalise every other character type.
I'm not saying people don't want their seven styles of lightsaber dueling and darkside mini-games, I just don't think we need that stuff.
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newForumNewName
Heroic
Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 1781
Location: Broomfield, CO
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloodwork wrote: | | Sean Patrick Fannon wrote: |
Respectfully, I believe your understanding of lightsabers is flawed. They are "magical" in nature, in that their entire construction and function is entirely connected to the Force. This is canon, not just my opinion. |
If we start arguing what is and is not canon we'll be here all day. |
Yes, but SPF is correct in this case. Lightsabers, specifically and in the Star Wars universe, are magic. And that is canon.
| Bloodwork wrote: | | Inventing a rule just to enforce a trope is crazy. |
Is it? Sanity mechanics are an invention to enforce the madness trope of the horror genre. Grit is a mechanic invented to enforce the trope of more seasoned characters being less affected by fear than less seasoned characters.
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Bloodwork
Seasoned
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| newForumNewName wrote: |
Yes, but SPF is correct in this case. Lightsabers, specifically and in the Star Wars universe, are magic. And that is canon. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon
I'm not saying he's wrong and I'm right about canon, just that the issue is not a simple one.
I don't like the idea that if someone doesn't read wookipedia they don't know anything about Star Wars.
| newForumNewName wrote: |
Is it? Sanity mechanics are an invention to enforce the madness trope of the horror genre. Grit is a mechanic invented to enforce the trope of more seasoned characters being less affected by fear than less seasoned characters. |
Sanity in those games (I assume you are talking about Realms of Cthulhu, etc) is a core concept of the game. The inevitable slip into madness is what those games are about. It happens to all characters, no matter the archetype.
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AMG503
Novice
Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 52
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Seriously,
I don't give a rats if someone tells me canon says light sabres are magical just because wookipedia thinks they are. The Canon argument went out the window about the same time someone introduced midi-chlorians and Gungans to the setting.
I've basically got no interest in playing a politically correct canon version of the star wars universe, I'd much rather a place thats got some surprises.
For example...years ago (when it was a trilogy) a GM I was talking to just assumed that Eps 4-6 were actually alliance propaganda movies, and explained them as such to his players so they knew that while the universe was mostly accurate, the plots of the movies might have been mixes up a little (and boy did they get a surprise to find out anikin skywalker survived) |
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TheArcaneTrickster
Novice
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Itt seems the Access was blocked.. I just sent a request form my thearcanetrickster gmail adress to get on the site again.
I assume you did this in order to Keep Turtleneck-George from demanding huge amounts of money from you?
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Bloodwork
Seasoned
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I have taken my bitching to a different thread and apologise to the OP. What I want isn't necessarily what everyone wants.
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chatterbox
Seasoned
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 234
Location: Herndon, VA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloodwork wrote: | | I have taken my bitching to a different thread and apologise to the OP. What I want isn't necessarily what everyone wants. |
Which is exactly why we have so many Savage Worlds Star Wars conversions, and each one is just a little different. I enjoyed reading through SPF's take on it, and it's different from my own, but I like to see more ideas and versions get out there. You can pick and choose within your group what you do and don't want to use - and the more ideas out there, the more options. Especially for the "typical Savage Worlds GM" who doesn't want to take the time to come up with their own take on everything. It's nice to be able to take a little of this and a little of that... and *boom* you're ready to play. And you can add your own ideas as well.
That's something I really like about Savage Worlds. And I think the Deluxe edition stressed that even more with a list of setting rule options/ideas to pick and choose from.
I say keep them coming, and I look forward to both the approving and dissenting opinions when (if) I make my own vision of Savaged Star Wars available. |
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Jacen
Novice
Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:32 am Post subject: |
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I have to say this really is fantastic work and the best star wars conversion I have seen. I am by no means a savage worlds expert but all the the other conversions I came across seemed grossly unbalanced and made the Jedi far too powerful. Yours seems much more balanced and has obviously been created by someone with an intimate knowledge of the game system.
How do you handle Sith in the game, was it your intent that they just use the same arcane background as the jedi? And the "Training" background edge mentions a "dramatic interest" I can see no other reference to what this is on the site.
I am sure I had another question but I can't think what it is right now haha
I plan to use your system more or less as is for my Knights of The Old Republic campaign. For the purpose of character creation I have created tables that compile all the new edges presented by you, the core edges that are in place and two or three edges from slipstream that I think are appropriate (such as Trademark Starship and One man crew) I have also created tables of equipment and a character creation summary as well. If you would I look then let me know and I will PM them to you 
I am also working on a Lightsaber construction system as well as gear and starship modification rules to use with my game.
You presented the idea that when a Jedi takes the Trademark weapon edge he is assumed to have created his own weapon. Well in my system a Jedi spends an advance to create his Lightsaber anytime after seasoned rank. A standard Lightsaber crystal has the same effects of the trademark weapon edge but a character may select a more exotic and rare crystal to allow different effects that are more tailored to his character type. After selecting his crystal the jedi makes a Force skill check, modified by the complexity of the particular crystal used. A success means he has crafted the Lightsaber and a failure means that he has failed this time. He may instead spend his advance on something else but he cannot attempt to create a Lightsaber again until he gains another advance.
I have also removed the lock picking skill form my game. It seems to me 99% of locks in the setting are going to be electronic so Tech ops should suffice. |
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chatterbox
Seasoned
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 234
Location: Herndon, VA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Related to Jacen's comments on the Lightsaber creation / Trademark weapon, I took a slightly different route.
I allow the skill prerequisite of Trademark weapon to be ignored for any weapon that the character creates/builds. This could also allow a "Techie" character to gain the benefit. |
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Ketjak
Novice
Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: Darn! |
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As someone late to the savage party but slated to run a Star Wars game in the near future, I sure would like to take a gander at this.
I've been experimenting with a few 1:1 games to learn the rules and I'm finally starting larger games and soon... A campaign.
Ket |
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Vinzent
Veteran
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 759
Location: Seattle WA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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In regards to Star Destroyers...
I like Daring Tales of the Spacelanes view that capital ships are hazards and there isn't a whole lot you can do to them.
That said, we see capital ships under fire from fighters all the time in Star Wars, but we've never seen a capital ship taken out by fighters. (ROTJ A-wing crashing into the bridge of the Super Star Destroyer doesn't count. He didn't take out the ship, just the bridge). So imho the best compromise is that fighters can target specific systems on Star Destroyers. List a number of targets such as fire control, weapons, shield generators, engines, etc with a modifier to hit and their toughness. Each system damaged by a fighter losses some of its overall ability. Several of the same systems may have to be damaged for them to be knocked out.
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VonDan
Legendary
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 3252
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warrenss2
Veteran
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 869
Location: Augusta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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PDF???
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robert4818
Heroic
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1046
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Ain't gonna happen.
SPF, being a professional game developer, is under tighter rules than simple fans when it comes to this set of home-brew deal. While what we do may be tolerated, SPF is setting himself up for a severe lawsuit from Lucas arts if he publishes such a thing. (This advice is why he took the site away from public viewing).
You may later hope that he takes the time to file serial numbers off the setting, but thats as close as you can get from him. |
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warrenss2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Understandable...
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warrenss2
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Location: Augusta, GA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Would you say a Lightsaber is a Heavy Weapon (at it can damage heavy armor vehicles)? I see that they ignore armor... does that include the heavy armor?
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robert4818
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| warrenss2 wrote: | | Would you say a Lightsaber is a Heavy Weapon (at it can damage heavy armor vehicles)? I see that they ignore armor... does that include the heavy armor? |
I would say yes* they are heavy weapons. However, I would also rule that they are incapable of damaging vehicles (2+) categories larger than them, regardless of heavy armor.
Remember episode one, as quigon slowly melts through a blast door? Shows that they CAN go through heavy armor, although rather slowly. So, if someone is wearing a suit of heavy armor, I would expect it to be rather easily cut through, However, if its big enough, then a light saber just isn't really going to be enough to do much. |
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warrenss2
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Location: Augusta, GA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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More I read this the more I like it.
Now... the miniatures.
I'll probably go with Clix for the most part. Save on the $$$
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Sean-Khan
Seasoned
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 490
Location: Finland, Tampere
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| robert4818 wrote: | | I would say yes* they are heavy weapons. However, I would also rule that they are incapable of damaging vehicles (2+) categories larger than them, regardless of heavy armor. |
Unless the user knows (or guesses well) the vehicle's weakness, which may have varying effects.
| warrenss2 wrote: | Now... the miniatures.
I'll probably go with Clix for the most part. Save on the $$$ |
Hm, I guess stormtroopers have gone up in costs quite a much? Generic aliens and humans have been quite cheap I think, and clones and droids have always been cheaper than stormies, so running a clone wars game is much cheaper miniatures-wise :/
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