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[NE] Unstoppable Super munchkin
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Timon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: [NE] Unstoppable Super munchkin Reply with quote

Below is the entirely legal (unless I miss my count) NE character my munchkin player made.
This guy tears through Drones and Ktharen troopers and is very hard to hit.
He has basically maxed-out use of device and done some smart things with Super Edges and Super Attributes.

Any suggestions as to how to challenge him?
Gang-up gets owned by Improved First Strike and ranged attacks have to get through his level 4 Deflection. He hits for d12+5+d8+2 damage.
I am certainly planning on taking/destroying his modified Vibro-sword (=fighting and deflection powers), but it is hard to hit him unless I roll out an ultra-sniper character.
I might yet do that... but am I missing something in the meantime?

Blade
Attributes: Agility d10, Smarts d8, Spirit d10, Strength d10, Vigor d8
Skills: Fighting d12+5, Guts d6, Notice d8, Swimming d8, Streetwise d8
Charisma 0, Pace 6, Parry 10, Toughness 8, Power Points 20, CV 201
Hindrances: Arrogant, Super Karma: Overconfident, Vengeful, Big Mouth
Edges: Arcane Background (Super Powers), Power Points: +5, Combat Reflexes, First Strike, Improved First Strike, Level Headed, Rich, Danger Sense, Improved Level Headed.
Powers: Attack, Melee: 3, Awareness, Deflection: 4, Lair, Speed: PaceŚ2, Super Attributes, Super Skills, Super Edge: Combat Reflexes, Improved First Strike, Level Headed, Improved Level Headed.
Gear: Vibro-Sword: Str+d8+2, Duraweave Suit: +1, Z-Belt: +1, Kevlar Vest: +2/4, Artificial Gill, Flashlight (10" beam), CommLink.
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newForumNewName
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mind Control: "Take a nap."
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UmbraLux
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once he's up from his nap, toss a few grenades his way.
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newForumNewName
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's only got Toughness 8(2). I second the Fusion Grenades (3d8, AP 4).
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a Flier with Super Skill d12+ Throwing, multiple actions and grenades?
Call him Strafe...or B-17.
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and another good trick for smacking the crap out of super munchkin ninjas like this one...Intangible with the a fore mentioned Mind Control.
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TheLoremaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the character was built with Metacreator. I'd like to take a closer look and see how it was put together. Would you mind passing me over the file so I can see how his points breakdown?

From a cursory glance, I think he may have too many Power Points assigned, but that depends largely on what mods were chosen. Still, I won't say he's not a tough cookie. It's .... kinda impressive, really. Smile
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Cutter XXIII
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pariah74 wrote:
Oh and another good trick for smacking the crap out of super munchkin ninjas like this one...Intangible with the a fore mentioned Mind Control.

Except those can't be used simultaneously. That is, you can't intangibly mind control someone, because that would count as "affecting the physical world." (Clint reference)

An arrogant, overconfident, incredibly rich guy's going to be hard pressed to keep a low profile. When he fails to do so, his accounts get frozen by the V'sori. There are no more "off-shore" bank accounts. When he tries to fix that little problem, the V'sori set a trap with mind controllers.
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marshal kt
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big mouth.
Sooner or later he's gonna run his mouth. Someone will drop dime on him to the V'sori.

They'll encircle him, and then mind control: him, or the crowd to capture him.

Or, they can play against his ego.

Make him fight a mirror of himself. But it's a contruct or better and undead. it can ignore the wound penalties.

If a munchkin is to uber, make him beat himself.
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutter XXIII wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
Oh and another good trick for smacking the crap out of super munchkin ninjas like this one...Intangible with the a fore mentioned Mind Control.

Except those can't be used simultaneously. That is, you can't intangibly mind control someone, because that would count as "affecting the physical world." (Clint reference)


Yes, but Phase makes it a free action. Pop in, Mind Control, pop out.
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newForumNewName
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pariah74 wrote:
Cutter XXIII wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
Oh and another good trick for smacking the crap out of super munchkin ninjas like this one...Intangible with the a fore mentioned Mind Control.

Except those can't be used simultaneously. That is, you can't intangibly mind control someone, because that would count as "affecting the physical world." (Clint reference)


Yes, but Phase makes it a free action. Pop in, Mind Control, pop out.

Can't do that either. Two of the same actions in a round (phasing).
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Livor Mortis
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once made a character that I never really got to use for a Supers campaign, which has some ideas that could work fairly well against this character. It had 20 power points (so Novice level with Super Karma and extra Power Points edge) divided as follows:
  • Extra Limbs (1): +1 Reach (5 power points)
  • Speed: Super Sonic (10 power points)

With the following powers affecting only the Extra Limb (which makes them cheaper as putting powers in devices does):
  • Decay: Midas Touch, Strong (2 power points)
  • Infection (3): Always On, Strong (1 power point)
  • Paralysis: Extra Power (2 power points)


Basically, the idea was to run into the battlefield, make a touch attack using his extra limb (which happens to be an extra hand growing from his stomach) from a distance (reach), leave the battlefield, lather, rinse, repeat.

The touch attacks call for 3 Vigor rolls at -2 or nasty things happen (i.e. taking a wound, becoming shaken or paralyzed, or just flat out becoming incapacitated). Though your character's Parry is at 10, the Touch attacks give +2 (which, however, likely will be cancelled out by needing to make a called shot), and Wild Attack's an additional +2 (will drop parry by 2, but he's gonna be off the battlefield after his actions anyway, and he's got the -8 penalty to attack him because of supersonic speed, in case anyone gets the bright idea of going on Hold). And because of the reach, your guy doesn't get his First Strike attack. Add on a touch of (Improved) Frenzy, or as per Deluxe rules maybe even a Rapid Attack, and your guy may find himself in a world of pain.

I found it rather appropriate to nickname this character 'The Swift Hand of Death'. And though you might not want to put this character up as is against your players, there's some ideas in there which I figure might be useful against the character you described, using melee attacks. Using Reach would, in my opinion, be essential if you want to go into melee against this guy. Disarm maneuver is golden.

A few other suggestions, other than the ones already mentioned above:

  • Explode power
  • Clever use of Illusions
  • Invisibility to get close without getting First Stricken
  • Absorption with the Reflection modifier to make his attacks backfire (I particularly like this one, imagining the 'Oh crap' look on the face of your player after inflicting 2 wounds to himself... Maybe I'm just mean)
  • Storm with the Lightning Strike modifier (Still affected by the -4 for Deflection, but can be done from a hell of a long distance and does massive damage).
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Lord Lance
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here the first two things coming to my mind: Ensnare with area attack - with parry 2 he shouldn't be a big problem ;D and/or Fear, with low Guts you can nerf him quickly, maybe kill him too, with a nice terrific roll on the fear table...
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TheLoremaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sending over those stats. OK, one point where he's illegal: Improved Level Headed is a Seasoned Rank Edge. Since he only has 5 XP, he could only take that as a Super Edge , but it looks like he took it as his 5 XP bump. Can you clarify that?

What about his Trappings? From his Powers, they all either have Require Activation or Device Limitations, but what are the Trappings? That's really where the balancing factor is going to come in. From the PC background, it might be some secret weapon or bodysuit that gives him these abilities. Without them, he's a normal human with a GREAT Fighting skill (d10 natural + 6 Levels of Super Skill = d12+5 Fighting).

So when he goes back to his Lair after a long night of fighting baddies ... and he steps into the shower ... and the bomb wired to the water line EXPLODES ... he will die. Twisted Evil But up until then, he'll be awesome!

He also only has a mediocre Guts Skill, so any character with Fear or Terror should make things challenging for him. Otherwise, get him through his background. He's got some unresolved daddy issues, play those out too. I think you could have a grand time playing with this dude... Very Happy
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Timon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! So far the most useful ones are those that do not require super-powers. I am running the NE plotpoint, which is mainly V'Sori opposition and very few supers. The Ktharens do carry fusion grenades, so that one is getting applied straight off, though with a d10 Agility he has a good chance of diving clear.

What I really want to do is nail the devices.
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newForumNewName wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
Cutter XXIII wrote:
Pariah74 wrote:
Oh and another good trick for smacking the crap out of super munchkin ninjas like this one...Intangible with the a fore mentioned Mind Control.

Except those can't be used simultaneously. That is, you can't intangibly mind control someone, because that would count as "affecting the physical world." (Clint reference)


Yes, but Phase makes it a free action. Pop in, Mind Control, pop out.

Can't do that either. Two of the same actions in a round (phasing).


You're right on a technicality, but the theory still holds. An intangible mind controller does the job.
Mind Control him, pop out.
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Timon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheLoremaster wrote:
Thanks for sending over those stats. OK, one point where he's illegal: Improved Level Headed is a Seasoned Rank Edge. Since he only has 5 XP, he could only take that as a Super Edge , but it looks like he took it as his 5 XP bump. Can you clarify that?

Darn, corrected that in a second file. Swap First strike out of the Super Edges and put Improved Level Headed in. That should fit.

Quote:
What about his Trappings?

The superskills fighting and deflection are in his customized vibrosword. The super attributes and edges are in the bodysuit. They are all devices and require activation (found two bugs in metacreator doing that) so I could get a surprise round on him with his powers down.

Quote:
He's got some unresolved daddy issues, play those out too. I think you could have a grand time playing with this dude... Very Happy

Daddy issues is right. This player is my 12-year-old son. Laughing
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timon wrote:
Daddy issues is right. This player is my 12-year-old son. Laughing


You know what's sad? I had a player in my supers game with about as much munchkining going on in his character...and he was like 30.

This is a well designed character for a 12 year old. I would be proud of that munchkin! Very Happy
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TheLoremaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timon wrote:
Darn, corrected that in a second file. Swap First strike out of the Super Edges and put Improved Level Headed in. That should fit.

Fair 'nuff.

Timon wrote:
Quote:
What about his Trappings?

The superskills fighting and deflection are in his customized vibrosword. The super attributes and edges are in the bodysuit. They are all devices and require activation (found two bugs in metacreator doing that) so I could get a surprise round on him with his powers down.

Or any other time when he'd be caught unaware: asleep, driving down the street, in the bathroom, etc. Are the devices electronic or similar? Any power with an electric trapping might short them out...

Timon wrote:
Quote:
He's got some unresolved daddy issues, play those out too. I think you could have a grand time playing with this dude... Very Happy

Daddy issues is right. This player is my 12-year-old son. Laughing

D'oh! I mean character-wise. Maybe the father is dead, maybe not, maybe the baddies find out about it and recruit a shapechanger to "persuade" him ... maybe "Mom" shows up, having gone over to the other side ... there's lots of fun to be had there!
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seanwalsh
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: [NE] Unstoppable Super munchkin Reply with quote

Timon wrote:
... He hits for d12+5+d8+2 damage. ...
Shouldn't this read he hits on d12+5 and his damage is 3d6+d10+d8+2 (Melee Attack:3 + Strength + sword)?
Parry 10 and Deflection: 4, but Toughness 8(2/4). He has a glass jaw.
First Strike will keep the meleers away, if it doesn't require activation. But I'd bet staying at range and just shooting him will do the trick. 8 is not so hard with d10+2 Katharens (overcharged Blaster + Military Training). Have you tried disarming him from range? That could be fun. After the initial reports, the V'sori and Katharen will fight from range with this guy, or at least force him to close to them.
On the other hand, why worry? If he likes to mow through the minions, let him! The V'sori have plenty of drones to send his way. He spent a significant amount of points to deal a lot of melee damage, but not much else, so let him deal melee damage.
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