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SWEX to SWD - changes and additions
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

new "Rapid attack" option for melee looke interesting
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kreider204
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
Unless I'm misreading it, the section on being shaken left out the part of "
if you are shaken by an attack and are already shaken, it's a wound"

page 68


Nope, it's right there

Applying Damage
...
• Success: The character is Shaken. If he was already
Shaken, he suffers a wound and remains Shaken.

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grimmshade
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where does it say that Armor is ineffective against Area Attacks? I must have been missing that this whole time.
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh. no more 6 pp for 3x3d6 bolts
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
heh. no more 6 pp for 3x3d6 bolts

I was just going to comment on that one myself!
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grimmshade wrote:
Where does it say that Armor is ineffective against Area Attacks? I must have been missing that this whole time.

Armor only protects the covered locations (meaning it has holes). Everything under a template is hit. Therefore, the holes in your armor are hit.

The rule of thumb has been to not worry about it with armor that has full coverage in all locations (the only holes are Tiny targets). This means that Kevlar vests (Torso) don't help against grenades because the grenade also hits the limbs and head. The Infantry Battle Suit (Head, Limbs, and Torso) does apply because it provides full coverage to all locations (yes, it has holes and weak points, but each location receives full benefit of the armor). A suit of Plate armor (Limbs and Torso) with a Pot Helm (50% Head) would be bypassed, because half of the head is exposed to the area.

Clear?

Oh, and nothing in SWD that I've seen changes that.
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Kakaze
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys think Wild Swing be used with Rapid Attack? If so, does it effect all 3 swings or just one?

Finally, we always ran Wild Swing as not working with Called Shot. Looking back, I'm not really sure why. Do you think it works with Called Shots?
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JackMann
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it happens, Kaze, someone just asked Clint that, and received an answer.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kakaze wrote:
Looking back, I'm not really sure why. Do you think it works with Called Shots?

It absolutely does.
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JackMann
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite the name, wild attack makes you more accurate, not less, so there's no reason it couldn't be combined with a called shot. It just makes it easier for people to hit you after.
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JackMann wrote:
Despite the name, wild attack makes you more accurate, not less, so there's no reason it couldn't be combined with a called shot. It just makes it easier for people to hit you after.


Yeah, wild attack just means you are leaving yourself open. I use the example of a huge overhead slash that over extends the attacker, using both hands on the weapon. Things like that.
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kreider204
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
grimmshade wrote:
Where does it say that Armor is ineffective against Area Attacks? I must have been missing that this whole time.

Armor only protects the covered locations (meaning it has holes). Everything under a template is hit. Therefore, the holes in your armor are hit.

The rule of thumb has been to not worry about it with armor that has full coverage in all locations (the only holes are Tiny targets). This means that Kevlar vests (Torso) don't help against grenades because the grenade also hits the limbs and head. The Infantry Battle Suit (Head, Limbs, and Torso) does apply because it provides full coverage to all locations (yes, it has holes and weak points, but each location receives full benefit of the armor). A suit of Plate armor (Limbs and Torso) with a Pot Helm (50% Head) would be bypassed, because half of the head is exposed to the area.

Clear?

Oh, and nothing in SWD that I've seen changes that.


Where is this in SWEX or SWD? I don't doubt you - I just can't find it anywhere.

EDIT: I found Clint's post to this effect, but I'd still like to see it in a rule book somewhere ...
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kreider204 wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
Armor only protects the covered locations (meaning it has holes). Everything under a template is hit. Therefore, the holes in your armor are hit.

Where is this in SWEX or SWD? I don't doubt you - I just can't find it anywhere.

That's part of the confusion - it's not explicitly stated anywhere.
SWD page 48 wrote:
Armor: This is the amount of Armor provided by the equipment, which is added to the wearer’s Toughness when the covered location is hit in combat.

Now we have Premise 1. (Emphasis mine.)
SWD page 70 wrote:
Everything under (or partially under) the template is affected.

Now we have Premise 2. This means that all parts of a character are hit. (If you want to dispute the conclusion, this is where you should focus.)

Premise 1 + Premise 2 => Conclusion 1. If any part of the character is unarmored (or only partially armored, like wearing a Pot Helm) then the character gains no benefit from his armor(s).

As I said, it's not explicit. It's just another rules interaction, one that requires more thought than most. And since Clint is the Official Rules guy, what he says in that capacity is as official as what's printed on the pages of the book. ... A book that tells you to ignore as much of it as you would like to, except for Trait rolls, Wild Dice, basic attacks, and wounds (SWD and SWEX, Learning the Rules).
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kreider204
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I got the explanation already - I was looking for a reference. That seems like a serious omission - sounds like something for the errata thread!
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kreider204
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:


Premise 1 + Premise 2 => Conclusion 1 ...


BTW, as a philosophy professor, I was tickled by your rigorous application of deductive logic!

Mr. Green
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Mylon
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do leadership edges work on wild cards? Is Command + Inspire really free Combat Reflexes (that stacks) for the entire party, or are wild cards and extras treated differently?
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was stated I think by Clint, that it depends on teh party. If a WC is under the command of another, then yet, it could count
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kreider204 wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:

Premise 1 + Premise 2 => Conclusion 1 ...

BTW, as a philosophy professor, I was tickled by your rigorous application of deductive logic!

As a former philosophy student, I am ever grateful for the vastly improved arguing skills generated by rigorous application of deductive logic. So, thanks for sharing. Laughing

Mylon wrote:
How do leadership edges work on wild cards?

Clint's already answered this one.
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Pariah74
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
It was stated I think by Clint, that it depends on teh party. If a WC is under the command of another, then yet, it could count


That was how I explained it to my group for EX Edition. As soon as I said they could have the benefits but they had to be a subordinate to the one with the edge, the discussion was pretty much over. Laughing

Ah...players, so predictable. Razz
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Mylon
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That explains it, thanks, Valhalla.
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