Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[longarms]

Proposed house rule:
Wild attack normally only benefits fighting attacks. House rule - wild attack also benefits throwing attacks (but not shooting attacks).

From a gamist point of view, I think it helps balance the throwing skill with the shooting skill for at least swords and sorcery settings. It is obviously my opinion that the throwing skill is less valuable than the shooting skill for most characters (I know that there are certain exceptions), if you see it otherwise, then this house rule wouldn't make sense from a gamist point of view. If you think that the throwing skill is on par or better than the shooting skill in swords and sorcery settings, then please explain, thanks.

[Rachan]

I always saw Wild Attacks as sort of a desperate, give-it-all-you-got maneuver. I could see this increasing the damage and range of a thrown attack, but not the accuracy.

I would try something like this:

Wild Attack (Throwing)
+2 damage, +1d6 to your longest range increment, -2 Throwing, -2 Parry until your next action. Standard range penalties still apply.


Actually, I think +1d4 to range would be better, but most little add-ons like this are a d6 (running die, damage on a raise, etc.), so a d6 here keeps things consistent.

The problem with this is that now Shooting is going to feel left out … it'll want a Wild Attack too. And it just can't have one, it already has double taps and autofire.
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[quote="77IM"]… it's not specifically allowed by the rules, but the GM is specifically allowed to allow it. [/quote]

[Merlin_Sylver]

Actually, I do tend to think that Throwing is as good as Shooting in a Sword & Sorcery sort of campaign. In more modern games it does lose a bit of its use... but in a good old fashioned fantasy, throwing can be immensely useful.

Consider the fact that thrown weapons use Str + d? depending on what weapon is being thrown. Yes, the range is considerably shorter, but I've seen what a high strength thrower can do in my own games. Plus, shooting is limited to weapons, while throwing can be used to throw anything at all. Take a little creative license with the elven Double Arrow edge from the Fantasy companion, and you've got a character that can huck two daggers at once...

Still, I could see how the Wild Attack maneuver could logically be used for Throwing attacks... I see no reason not to allow it.
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[77IM]

To me, "The range is considerably shorter" = "You can only really throw for 1 or 2 rounds, and then you're in melee." In other words, Parry matters to the thrower, a lot. Therefore, I think it's a fine idea to allow Wild Attack (sacrifice Parry for Attack/Damage), but maybe only at short range. (Wild Attack + throw a Spear 10" seems too good, since it's likely you could stay out of the target's range for several rounds, and with no attack penalty). In fact, I might propose the opposite of Rachan's idea; Wild Attack halves your ranges, since you can only get that sort of extra precision at closer range. (I've always viewed Wild Attack as a risky or overextended attack, not necessarily a reckless one.)

-- 77IM
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[Rachan]

That works too … but if you're throwing into more-or-less melée range, where does your hatchet wind up when you miss? Especially with such a powerful swing?

Either way, we're trading range for power and precision. I just figure longer ranges account for trajectory a little better—a "miss" is more likely to miss than it is to hit someone else, which is just less dice rolling to worry about.
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[quote="77IM"]… it's not specifically allowed by the rules, but the GM is specifically allowed to allow it. [/quote]

[Dylan S]

One up side to Throwing is that with Two-Fist and Ambi, you can throw two things per round. Take some creativity with Double-Shot and make it four. Why not?

One down side to Throwing is that Quick Draw becomes a must-have, or you're at -2 every round past your first throw.

For a wild throw, what about simply +2 damage, -2 to hit, with no effect on Parry? The difference between this and a called shot is that, well, it stacks with a called shot. Have fun making that wild headshot at -6, though.

[longarms]

"One up side to Throwing is that with Two-Fist and Ambi, you can throw two things per round. "

Good reminder. I have been playing a pirates setting for a while, where you can shoot with both hands using a brace of pistols, that I forgot in a high fantasy setting cannot really be done (unless of course you have "hand crossbows"). Throwing does make it easier in that setting.

[Rachan]

[Zadmar]

My main concern with Wild Attack for thrown weapons is the attack bonus. Swing your axe at someone who has d12 in Fighting and a large shield and they'll have a Parry of 10 - but throw your axe at them, and you only have to roll against a TN of 4. Add on +2 from Wild Attack, and anything other than snake eyes would hit them at short range - and the +2 damage would cancel out the armour bonus from their shield.

You can already get the +2 attack bonus with Aim, but that requires you to spend a full round aiming, and doesn't give a damage bonus. Even with the Marksman edge, you wouldn't be able to run away the same round you threw your weapon - so no aim bonus if you're also using Fleet-Footed to keep out of your opponent's melee reach.

I wouldn't mind seeing an option for increasing the range of thrown weapons, perhaps even allow you to add your Strength die to the longest range increment, but I would make it a Throwing variant of Aim rather than Wild Attack (i.e., a replacement for the normal +2 attack, but with the same restrictions on movement). Spend a round aiming with your throwing axe, and maybe you can hit that sentry on the other end of the bridge, but it's not something you're likely to use in the heat of battle.

[islan]

Yeah, don't forget that you can already Aim with a thrown weapon; Aim + Wild Attack would be devastating.

Thrown Weapons as they are are very useful for high-strength Melee builds, particularly ones with two-weapon fighting and the Quick Draw Edge. Just imagine this scenario:

A guy with a sword in one hand and a hand-ax in the other. Moves up and chops down one guy with his sword, then completes the rest of his Pace towards another guy, doesn't get close enough, but then throws his axe (TN 4, making it very good against High Parry characters), most likely hits, possibly even does +1d6 extra damage, then as a free action draws another hand ax!

But that's Throwing at its best, really. It's not very good if, say, you want to play an agile / low-strength character that throws darts. I would probably prefer to see some kind of Edge that gives that sorta guy a better use of the skill. (EDIT: though I suppose the Marksman Edge probably goes a good way to doing this)

[Merlin_Sylver]

I've never really understood the point of using darts as a thrown weapon unless said darts are coated in some sort of poison (in which case, you don't need to actually Wound the target, you just have to get a Shaken result).

Of course... a dart in the eye is still a dart in the eye, no matter how much damage is rolled...

I had a player playing a dagger expert (I was kind, letting his Trademark Weapon be a certain type of dagger, of which he had six that were identical, instead of a single dagger), and his build was something like this, at Novice level:
d10 Throwing
Ambidextrous (free edge), Two-Fisted and TM Weapon (from Hindrances). At Seasoned, he also took Marksman, by this time he had his Throwing score up to d12. So, with his first Seasoned advance, he was taking headshots with only a -1 penalty, scoring raises often enough to say it was most of the time. So, even with his low strength and small weapon, he was still dealing 2d4+1d6+4 damage to most foes, for an average of about 12 points of damage (though, closer to 15, as he almost always aced on one of the d4 rolls... lucky bastitch). Not to mention the fact that he was a little stealth monkey that got the drop on his opponents more often than not (hiding behind the half-troll most of the time... yes, the half-troll), with yet another +4 tacked to the damage. Honestly, this guy killed more people than the half-troll with a greataxe...

The only problem was that he could do this for the first round or two of combat before opponents realized he was the major threat, and being an agility build, he did not have much Toughness. He always seemed to have Lucky Break, Not Today, or Better You Than Me from the adventure deck, though.... (did I say lucky bastitch?)
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Yes! I have captured your cat and placed him in this box where he will either flourish or perish as chance dictates!

[Rachan]

Sounds a lot like a character I made for D&D 3.5 once. Imagine Jack Sparrow if he'd been born a landlocked circus performer instead of a pirate on the high seas. He was the knife juggler.

Or, he would have been the knife juggler, but the system broke him. He ended up being the knife juggler AND the tank AND the ninja assassin AND …

Stupid D&D …
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[quote="77IM"]… it's not specifically allowed by the rules, but the GM is specifically allowed to allow it. [/quote]

[longarms]

So, there would be an issue with wild attack being stacked with aiming (+4 to hit TN 4). That is a particular good point, thank you!

[Mylon]

As far as I'm concerned, taking the aim action (spend a whole turn doing nothing but aiming) is the ranged form of a wild attack. It doesn't lower your parry, but in a firefight it is reckless.