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Some house rules for discussion

 
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Merlin_Sylver
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject: Some house rules for discussion Reply with quote

Hey all, I'd like to post a couple of edges that I've added to some of my games, and have (so far) worked quite well. Feel free to comment in any way on these edges, as they are pretty much in 'playtest' status right now.

Counter Attack (Veteran, Fighting d8 )
Allows the character to make one melee attack at -2 Fighting against a failed melee attacker. The character can only make one Counter Attack per round.

Evasion (Seasoned, Agility d8, Notice d8 )
Allows the character to make an Agilty -2 roll to take only half damage from any sort of area effect damage.

Pistoleer (Seasoned, Shooting d10)
The character's Double Tap bonuses are doubled (+2 Shooting and Damage)

Energy Substitution (Seasoned, AB, Arcane Skill d8, at least 3 powers with different energy trappings)
The caster may switch out energy trappings between his powers. For instance, a mage with this edge, with a Fire Blast, an Icy Bolt, and a Lightning Aura could produce Lightning Blasts, or Fire Auras.

Support Power (Veteran, AB, Arcane Skill d10)
This allows 'support' powers such as Smite or Armor to be cast on a small party instead of a single target. Any friendly subject that stands adjacent to the target of such a power also receives the benefit of the power. Full Power Points must be used for each target to be affected. (I have been thinking of making this a flat double Power Points, but I'm afraid this would be too powerful... any thoughts?)

Feel free to pick these edge apart Smile

Also, I would like to introduce a shooting maneuver I have been using in modern games.

Laying on the Lead
If the weapon you are using is semi-automatic, you may 'lay on the lead'. Essentially, you simply point your gun at a target at pulling the trigger as fast as you can. This maneuver uses six bullets from the weapon. Each shot is at -4. (You may note this is a lot like Fanning the Hammer in DLR... that's because I modeled this maneuver after those mechanics... also the Hip Shootin' and Improved Hip Shootin' edges work for Laying on the Lead as well as Fanning the Hammer)


Last edited by Merlin_Sylver on Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think these are all useful and well-balanced additions except Evasion - why wouldn't I pick Dodge instead, which allows me to be better at avoiding ALL the damage from an area effect attack?

I especially like Energy Substitution and Pistoleer.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlasherEpoch wrote:
I think these are all useful and well-balanced additions except Evasion - why wouldn't I pick Dodge instead, which allows me to be better at avoiding ALL the damage from an area effect attack?

I especially like Energy Substitution and Pistoleer.


I think Dodge only allows for the bonus on area effects already allowed a roll (this is something I ran afoul of just a couple of weeks ago). The Evasion would allow for such a roll from effects that wouldn't normally allow such a roll (such as the Blast power). However, in this case, I could see how Dodge and Evasion would be cumulative... maybe I could make Dodge a prerequisite for Evasion?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
However, in this case, I could see how Dodge and Evasion would be cumulative... maybe I could make Dodge a prerequisite for Evasion?

If so, I'd drop the Notice requirement.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
Merlin_Sylver wrote:
However, in this case, I could see how Dodge and Evasion would be cumulative... maybe I could make Dodge a prerequisite for Evasion?

If so, I'd drop the Notice requirement.


Agreed... I've actually already changed it on my master list of edges.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counter attack seems very strong -- you can stack it with First Strike, Frenzy, Two Fisted, etc. and basically have a ton of free attacks. I'm curious how it play tests.

Evasion seems like it could be simplified to say that it grants an Agility -2 check to evade area attacks which don't normally grant the check (as opposed to all area attacks). This seems like it more directly addresses the issue (evading blast powers etc.). So it's kind of orthogonal to Dodge, and the two still work well together. I'd keep the Notice requirement in this case.

Pistoleer is great if the rest of the party is carrying M-16s and your guy wants to have a Beretta for role-playing reasons. The M-16 will still be more damaging, even with no edges spent, but the pistol guy gets to conceal his weapon and can go for Two-Fisted and Ambidexterity. My only concern is that this is almost strictly superior to Trademark Weapon and Marksman (both of which use less ammo than double-tapping).

I have a similar edge although the way I phrased mine was something like, "Any weapon which you can fire on double-tap, you can now fire on three-round-burst instead if you wish." This increases the ammo consumption further and I feel it makes it more clear how this edge compares to existing rules.

Energy Substitution is beautiful. Can you only swap energies that you already have, or any energy you can think of?

Support Power seems pretty good to me, if a bit strong. I'd actually remove the restriction about standing next to each other and just say "within normal range." I think you should keep the full PP requirement -- the advantage of taking only 1 action and 1 activation roll is huge and well worth an edge. Basically you can give your whole party a huge boost but it burns a big hole in your PP. This may be too good for certain powers. Like, if you get a raise with deflect suddenly the whole party can Wild Attack and you've all got +2 to Attack, Damage and Parry/Dodge for the next 3 rounds! But if it costs you 10PP to do it, maybe it's OK? I can't really tell on this one -- I like the concept a lot but the play testing might show it to be too good.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

77IM wrote:
Counter attack seems very strong -- you can stack it with First Strike, Frenzy, Two Fisted, etc. and basically have a ton of free attacks. I'm curious how it play tests.

This already exists in a few forms (Riposte edge in PotSM comes to mind as well as Counterpunch in DLR from The Flood). The existing edges usually require First Strike as a prerequisite though and they say specifically that you can't stack a counterattack with Frenzy or Sweep and that it is a single attack so that eliminates Two Fisted.

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Pistoleer (Seasoned, Shooting d10)
The character's Double Tap bonuses are doubled (+2 Shooting and Damage)

You can Double Tap with any semi-automatic weapon and it doesn't really specify that it applies to pistols only. As 77IM suggests allowing the player to use the three round burst rule on the weapon that normally wouldn't allow it (which is almost the same as you have it written), but add that it only applies to pistols or weapons with pistol grips and that can already Double Tap.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

77IM wrote:
Counter attack seems very strong -- you can stack it with First Strike, Frenzy, Two Fisted, etc. and basically have a ton of free attacks. I'm curious how it play tests.


I've actually been using this one for quite some time, and the fact that it stacks with First Strike has played heavily in one campaign. It did make the character a bit 'attack' heavy per round, but it also made that player a bit cocky about wading into melee combat, and that character eventually suffered a ghastly death at the hands of some ghouls that had mobbed him. Strangely enough, even though the rest of the party has seen how many attacks he got per round, nobody else (not even that player) has taken Counter Attack again. The fact that I've been running mostly contemporary games lately might have something to with that...

77IM wrote:
Evasion seems like it could be simplified to say that it grants an Agility -2 check to evade area attacks which don't normally grant the check (as opposed to all area attacks). This seems like it more directly addresses the issue (evading blast powers etc.). So it's kind of orthogonal to Dodge, and the two still work well together. I'd keep the Notice requirement in this case.


I will admit that I had to look up orthogonal... Yes, I agree the wording needs to be changed.

77IM wrote:
Pistoleer is great if the rest of the party is carrying M-16s and your guy wants to have a Beretta for role-playing reasons. The M-16 will still be more damaging, even with no edges spent, but the pistol guy gets to conceal his weapon and can go for Two-Fisted and Ambidexterity. My only concern is that this is almost strictly superior to Trademark Weapon and Marksman (both of which use less ammo than double-tapping).

I have a similar edge although the way I phrased mine was something like, "Any weapon which you can fire on double-tap, you can now fire on three-round-burst instead if you wish." This increases the ammo consumption further and I feel it makes it more clear how this edge compares to existing rules.


I like this idea a lot... I'm now thinking of calling Pistoleer 'Triple Tap', and changing it to use three ammo for +2/+2.

77IM wrote:
Energy Substitution is beautiful. Can you only swap energies that you already have, or any energy you can think of?

Thank you. As to your question, my first thought was to allow for the usage of any sort of energy trapping, but on second thought, I thought that might be too powerful. Limiting it to being able to 'swap out' energy trappings of your own powers seemed much more balanced. Perhaps an 'Improved Energy Substitution' Edge to allow for free selection of energy trappings?

77IM wrote:
Support Power seems pretty good to me, if a bit strong. I'd actually remove the restriction about standing next to each other and just say "within normal range." I think you should keep the full PP requirement -- the advantage of taking only 1 action and 1 activation roll is huge and well worth an edge. Basically you can give your whole party a huge boost but it burns a big hole in your PP. This may be too good for certain powers. Like, if you get a raise with deflect suddenly the whole party can Wild Attack and you've all got +2 to Attack, Damage and Parry/Dodge for the next 3 rounds! But if it costs you 10PP to do it, maybe it's OK? I can't really tell on this one -- I like the concept a lot but the play testing might show it to be too good.


I thought this might be a bit powerful, but what drove me to design this edge was this: One of my players loves playing clerics in D&D, and really enjoys being a 'support' character. But, seeing how fluid combat is in Savage Worlds, he likes to get in there with his warhammer too... so either he would end up spending the whole combat 'buffing' the party and miss most of the action, or he'd wade in while everyone else missed out on the support they are accustom to. It seemed the edge would help him to be able to spend a round or two 'buffing' the party, then get in a few licks himself.

It does tend to burn big holes in PP... for a four-player party the 'armor' spell costs 8 PP... that leaves a lot fewer PP for Heal spells later, too.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Some house rules for discussion Reply with quote

Merlin_Sylver wrote:

Energy Substitution (Seasoned, AB, Arcane Skill d8, at least 3 powers with different energy trappings)
The caster may switch out energy trappings between his powers. For instance, a mage with this edge, with a Fire Blast, an Icy Bolt, and a Lightning Aura could produce Lightning Blasts, or Fire Auras.

Well, I think this edge is almost useless, unless in your game you have often monster with immunities and / or weakness to classic energies, like those you pointed at (fire, ice, lighting - this remind me D&D). If you don't have that kind of monsters, then you are simply changing the "color" of the spell, so you are gaining no real advantages.
In the latter case, then I would add to the edge another "little" bonus, something like "You also gain more control and power from the energies you create, so you can choose a single power and gaining a +1 bonus Damage (or +2 AP)".
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Some house rules for discussion Reply with quote

Lord Lance wrote:

Well, I think this edge is almost useless, unless in your game you have often monster with immunities and / or weakness to classic energies, like those you pointed at (fire, ice, lighting - this remind me D&D). If you don't have that kind of monsters, then you are simply changing the "color" of the spell, so you are gaining no real advantages.
In the latter case, then I would add to the edge another "little" bonus, something like "You also gain more control and power from the energies you create, so you can choose a single power and gaining a +1 bonus Damage (or +2 AP)".


I have to disagree that it is useless...it allows mages that take energy trappings for their spells to make better use of them. If a mage with this edge finds himself surrounded by flammable oil or black powder, he might not want to use his Fire Aura spell... but an Icy Aura would be just fine. Many energy trappings have secondary effects (fire sets things on fire, lightning can cause a stun-like effect, acid can render some objects useless), and this edge allows a mage to make the most of his energy trappings.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Some house rules for discussion Reply with quote

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
I have to disagree that it is useless...it allows mages that take energy trappings for their spells to make better use of them. If a mage with this edge finds himself surrounded by flammable oil or black powder, he might not want to use his Fire Aura spell... but an Icy Aura would be just fine. Many energy trappings have secondary effects (fire sets things on fire, lightning can cause a stun-like effect, acid can render some objects useless), and this edge allows a mage to make the most of his energy trappings.


What you're doing is totally cool.

In Iron Dynasty, we have elemental affinities that overlay a related effect to power, depending upon the power used. For example, if a character has Boost/Lower Trait and Elemental Affinity: Fire, he does a bit of extra damage and has a chance to set his enemies on fire if he boosted his Strength for example (which certainly emulates "Flaming Fists of Fury").

Take care,

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding Support Power, there's a power in the Fantasy Companion called Bless/Curse which essentially casts Boost/Lower Trait on multiple persons. Perhaps you could use it for some guidelines.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sitting Duck wrote:
Regarding Support Power, there's a power in the Fantasy Companion called Bless/Curse which essentially casts Boost/Lower Trait on multiple persons. Perhaps you could use it for some guidelines.


Yes... I've been running afoul of the Fantasy Companion with a lot of my house rules... I really need to get that book.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Some house rules for discussion Reply with quote

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Counter Attack (Veteran, Fighting dCool


As others have said, we've got a similar Edge in some books (in fact, The Flood players freebie on the website downloads has the one from there in it).

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Evasion (Seasoned, Agility d8, Notice dCool
Allows the character to make an Agilty -2 roll to take only half damage from any sort of area effect damage.


D&D much? Wink

Seriously though, why half damage? It's a Seasoned Edge with a d8 Attribute and Skill (not linked to the same Attribute, an important factor) with a -2 to the roll. I wouldn't call it Evasion though, and truthfully just to avoid the connotation and potential confusion with the d20 ability. How about...

Avoidance
Requirements: Seasoned, Agility d8, Notice d8

This character is trained or instinctively aware of incoming Area Effect attacks. If an Area Effect attack does not allow an Agility roll to avoid, he gets an Agility roll at -2 to avoid it. If an attack does allow an Agility roll to avoid it's effects, each raise on his roll allows him to push or otherwise move an ally out of the area as well as himself.

If an Area Effect attack is not avoided with Agility but another Trait instead, the character may make his Agility roll first at -2, and if failed, he still gets the other Trait roll as normal.

Improved Avoidance
Requirements: Veteran, Avoidance

Even if the character fails to escape an Area Effect attack, he is still able to find some level of protection for himself. If the character fails to avoid an Area Effect attack, he is considered to have at least Medium Cover against the damage (+2 Armor). If the character already has Medium or better cover, its effect is increased one level up to a maximum of near total cover (-6 or +6 Armor). If the Area Effect attack is not damaging (like an entangle or stun spell), the character gains a +2 bonus to escape or avoid its effect.

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Pistoleer (Seasoned, Shooting d10)
The character's Double Tap bonuses are doubled (+2 Shooting and Damage)


I think someone else already mentioned this (and it's been done before), but I'd just make it an Edge that allows a character to Three Round Burst with a weapon capable of Double Tapping. Heck, I might even go...

Rapid Fire
Requirements: Seasoned, Shooting d8

This character is capable of pulling a trigger faster and retaining accuracy. He can use Double Tap with a weapon not normally capable of it (as long as the weapon does not needed to be reloaded between shots), and he can use Three Round Burst with a weapon capable of Double Tap.

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Energy Substitution (Seasoned, AB, Arcane Skill d8, at least 3 powers with different energy trappings)
The caster may switch out energy trappings between his powers. For instance, a mage with this edge, with a Fire Blast, an Icy Bolt, and a Lightning Aura could produce Lightning Blasts, or Fire Auras.


Hmm, this one is tricky for me because it feels a lot like the intent is "the mechanics work almost exactly the same but only the appearance changes." And though I hate to mention it, the discussion of Trappings in the Fantasy Companion gets into some significant differences that trappings can apply to a power. Differences that can make this Edge pretty powerful if applied to each trapping on each power.

Not saying I'm against it, just that I would want to see it playtested significantly to determine how powerful it would be.

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Support Power (Veteran, AB, Arcane Skill d10)


Hmm, not sure I wouldn't just go Setting Rule on this. An Edge that gives the ability on all powers is a significant change to one character, but granting that option to all casters (at a PP increase and perhaps other drawback) is more universally balanced.

Heck, treat it like Bolt. You can affect up to three targets with a separate Arcane Skill die for each and paying the individual PPs.

Or it could just be an optional Trapping for the power. Up the cost by 50% per casting (round up) and you can do the "bolt trick," or stay with the lower cost and only affect one per casting.

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Laying on the Lead
If the weapon you are using is semi-automatic, you may 'lay on the lead'. Essentially, you simply point your gun at a target at pulling the trigger as fast as you can. This maneuver uses six bullets from the weapon. Each shot is at -4. (You may note this is a lot like Fanning the Hammer in DLR... that's because I modeled this maneuver after those mechanics... also the Hip Shootin' and Improved Hip Shootin' edges work for Laying on the Lead as well as Fanning the Hammer)


I might clarify that the maneuver can use up to six bullets maximum and other than the increased penalty, it works like Automatic Fire... not that this has ever been discussed before. Wink

Based on this maneuver and the Rapid Fire Edge, another to consider is...

Improved Rapid Fire
Requirements: Veteran, Rapid Fire

You can use a non-fully automatic weapon to perform Suppressive Fire. Such use requires firing 5 shots from the weapon and only affects a Small Burst Template instead of a Medium one, but otherwise works as listed for Suppressive Fire.
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Merlin_Sylver
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Some house rules for discussion Reply with quote

Wow... thanks for the in depth response, Clint. A lot of your suggestions make a lot of sense to me.

Clint wrote:
Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Counter Attack (Veteran, Fighting dCool


As others have said, we've got a similar Edge in some books (in fact, The Flood players freebie on the website downloads has the one from there in it).


I've tried, but every time I try to download anything, I just get a blank page... maybe it's my reader settings.

Clint wrote:

D&D much? Wink

Seriously though, why half damage? It's a Seasoned Edge with a d8 Attribute and Skill (not linked to the same Attribute, an important factor) with a -2 to the roll. I wouldn't call it Evasion though, and truthfully just to avoid the connotation and potential confusion with the d20 ability. How about...


Yes, I admit that, even after nearly two years of nothing but Savage Worlds, I still have years and years of D&D mentality to overcome. I actually named the edge Evasion so my players (until recently a hardcore D&D group) would recognize it. However, I really do like your answer to Evasion:

Clint wrote:

Avoidance
Requirements: Seasoned, Agility d8, Notice d8

This character is trained or instinctively aware of incoming Area Effect attacks. If an Area Effect attack does not allow an Agility roll to avoid, he gets an Agility roll at -2 to avoid it. If an attack does allow an Agility roll to avoid it's effects, each raise on his roll allows him to push or otherwise move an ally out of the area as well as himself.

If an Area Effect attack is not avoided with Agility but another Trait instead, the character may make his Agility roll first at -2, and if failed, he still gets the other Trait roll as normal.

Improved Avoidance
Requirements: Veteran, Avoidance

Even if the character fails to escape an Area Effect attack, he is still able to find some level of protection for himself. If the character fails to avoid an Area Effect attack, he is considered to have at least Medium Cover against the damage (+2 Armor). If the character already has Medium or better cover, its effect is increased one level up to a maximum of near total cover (-6 or +6 Armor). If the Area Effect attack is not damaging (like an entangle or stun spell), the character gains a +2 bonus to escape or avoid its effect.


These are just beautiful edges, and are going into my master list right now, replacing Evasion. Thanks a lot for this one!

Clint wrote:
Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Pistoleer (Seasoned, Shooting d10)
The character's Double Tap bonuses are doubled (+2 Shooting and Damage)


I think someone else already mentioned this (and it's been done before), but I'd just make it an Edge that allows a character to Three Round Burst with a weapon capable of Double Tapping. Heck, I might even go...

Rapid Fire
Requirements: Seasoned, Shooting d8

This character is capable of pulling a trigger faster and retaining accuracy. He can use Double Tap with a weapon not normally capable of it (as long as the weapon does not needed to be reloaded between shots), and he can use Three Round Burst with a weapon capable of Double Tap.


This, and the improved version below, are great edges. I'm probably going to keep the term 'Triple Tap', just to avoid any confusion... don't want my players getting the idea they can turn a pistol into a machine gun with one edge.

Clint wrote:
Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Energy Substitution (Seasoned, AB, Arcane Skill d8, at least 3 powers with different energy trappings)
The caster may switch out energy trappings between his powers. For instance, a mage with this edge, with a Fire Blast, an Icy Bolt, and a Lightning Aura could produce Lightning Blasts, or Fire Auras.


Hmm, this one is tricky for me because it feels a lot like the intent is "the mechanics work almost exactly the same but only the appearance changes." And though I hate to mention it, the discussion of Trappings in the Fantasy Companion gets into some significant differences that trappings can apply to a power. Differences that can make this Edge pretty powerful if applied to each trapping on each power.

Not saying I'm against it, just that I would want to see it playtested significantly to determine how powerful it would be.


Actually, I just assumed from the way things were written in SWEX that each spell's trappings would do more for it than simply 'coloring' the spell... I've always allowed Fire trappings to set things on fire... Electricity trappings can have a 'taser' effect on those that take enough damage, and cold will sometimes cause a round of sluggishness for those affected.

I have yet to see it playtested... I know it will be when my playtest party gets to Seasoned level. My goal is to give my mage player (who is accustom to the staggering variety of spells in D&D) a bit more flexibility without him using every single advance on new powers.

Clint wrote:
Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Support Power (Veteran, AB, Arcane Skill d10)


Hmm, not sure I wouldn't just go Setting Rule on this. An Edge that gives the ability on all powers is a significant change to one character, but granting that option to all casters (at a PP increase and perhaps other drawback) is more universally balanced.

Heck, treat it like Bolt. You can affect up to three targets with a separate Arcane Skill die for each and paying the individual PPs.

Or it could just be an optional Trapping for the power. Up the cost by 50% per casting (round up) and you can do the "bolt trick," or stay with the lower cost and only affect one per casting.


Hmmm, it never occured to me to just change the nature of the powers themselves... that might actually be the easier way to deal with this situation, just choose which powers I want to be usable in this way, and just add a multi-target option. That way I don't have to deal with players arguing to use Healing as a support power Razz

Clint wrote:
Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Laying on the Lead
If the weapon you are using is semi-automatic, you may 'lay on the lead'. Essentially, you simply point your gun at a target at pulling the trigger as fast as you can. This maneuver uses six bullets from the weapon. Each shot is at -4. (You may note this is a lot like Fanning the Hammer in DLR... that's because I modeled this maneuver after those mechanics... also the Hip Shootin' and Improved Hip Shootin' edges work for Laying on the Lead as well as Fanning the Hammer)


I might clarify that the maneuver can use up to six bullets maximum and other than the increased penalty, it works like Automatic Fire... not that this has ever been discussed before. Wink


I might have a flawed understanding of how Auto-Fire works.... I was envisioning it basically as being a 'Fan the Hammer' type maneuver that uses more modern weapons. Though I do need to change the text to say 'up to six bullets'.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Some house rules for discussion Reply with quote

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Clint wrote:
Hmm, this one is tricky for me because it feels a lot like the intent is "the mechanics work almost exactly the same but only the appearance changes." And though I hate to mention it, the discussion of Trappings in the Fantasy Companion gets into some significant differences that trappings can apply to a power. Differences that can make this Edge pretty powerful if applied to each trapping on each power.

Not saying I'm against it, just that I would want to see it playtested significantly to determine how powerful it would be.


Actually, I just assumed from the way things were written in SWEX that each spell's trappings would do more for it than simply 'coloring' the spell... I've always allowed Fire trappings to set things on fire... Electricity trappings can have a 'taser' effect on those that take enough damage, and cold will sometimes cause a round of sluggishness for those affected.


Yeah, even those changes are things I consider "almost" the same. To clarify, the changes you mention would likely be considered Minor Effects in the Fantasy Companion, but the book also describes Major Effects that can be made to a power due to trappings, and those are the kind of differences that I think could make the Edge more significant.

To give a loose idea of major effects, consider being able to switch between an electrical version that does an extra die of damage if the target is wearing a lot of metal on in contact with a conductor, or a fire version that has AP, or a cold version that requires a roll or the target takes a Fatigue level? And again, that's loose; maybe two have better range, one costs more PPs, one has a lower base die type, etc.

Being able to switch between these factors is a pretty big benefit. So people that use those (like the ones who have mentioned the FC in the thread) will likely view this Edge differently. Kind of the flipside of the "I just use trappings as window dressing and don't change the rules enough for this to be worthwhile" view.

But to reiterate, I'm definitely not saying it could not work; that Edge may indeed be worth that benefit and not over or under powered. It's just not something I can make a call on purely by eye based on my own expectations of trappings.

Or maybe I should just stick with, "Reply Hazy. Ask Again Later." Wink

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
Clint wrote:
I might clarify that the maneuver can use up to six bullets maximum and other than the increased penalty, it works like Automatic Fire... not that this has ever been discussed before. Wink


I might have a flawed understanding of how Auto-Fire works.... I was envisioning it basically as being a 'Fan the Hammer' type maneuver that uses more modern weapons. Though I do need to change the text to say 'up to six bullets'.
[/quote]

Note, based on the question asked in the other topic, my reply should have said "other than the increased penalty and number of bullets used..."
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77IM
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merlin_Sylver wrote:
One of my players loves playing clerics in D&D, and really enjoys being a 'support' character. But, seeing how fluid combat is in Savage Worlds, he likes to get in there with his warhammer too... so either he would end up spending the whole combat 'buffing' the party and miss most of the action, or he'd wade in while everyone else missed out on the support they are accustom to.

You could use the 4e solution: Some way of casting these powers as a free action (or combined with an attack but at no MAP). It might be more balanced than buffing the whole group at once and have more strategic impact (deciding who gets the buff first; opportunity to change buff tactics half-way through the fight; etc.).

-- 77IM
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

77IM wrote:

You could use the 4e solution: Some way of casting these powers as a free action (or combined with an attack but at no MAP). It might be more balanced than buffing the whole group at once and have more strategic impact (deciding who gets the buff first; opportunity to change buff tactics half-way through the fight; etc.).
-- 77IM


I haven't even touched a 4e book, nor do I intend to. WotC has gotten quite enough of my money, thank you.

However, the idea was presented to change the trappings of the powers I'd like to make 'multi-targeted', I think that's the route I will go with this. This should allow my player to spend a round or two buffing, and then wade in to finish off the fight (most of my combats don't last more than four or five rounds).
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