Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Clint]

Well, I don't often do this, but I'll just flat out disagree with the notion that Edges are rare in SW. That seems more influenced by other systems than the initiative idea.

That said, as noted, two of the issues with adjusting the value of the card itself are the inability of the GM to simply look at the cards and know who acts next plus the loss of the non-simultaneous feature of using cards. If you have one character with a -1, one at 0, one at +1, and one at +2 and deal out a Jack of Hearts, Ten of Hearts, Nine of Hearts, and Eight of Hearts, then some way of determining who goes first has to be created, and considering Agility and Smarts are already adjusting the values, do you "double dip" and use them again or go another route.

If someone really wanted Agility and Smarts to be inherently tied to initiative, then I'd suggest the simplest method.

Use the lower of Agility and Smarts (to represent that initiative is dependent on both), and a Wild Card is dealt half that die type minus one cards, taking the best for initiative. That way a d4 only provides one card, a d6 two cards, a d8 three cards, etc... But that has to be the minimum in both Attributes.

So if you have a d4 Agility and a d10 Smarts (or vice versa), you get one card, but if you have a d8 in both Agility and Smarts, then you get three cards and take the best. Just add a "Derived Stat" called Initiative that has that number listed in it.

That way the base card values are still used so the GM can see by the cards who goes next, and there's no chance of a tie. You could even adapt and keep the Edges too. Change Level Headed to require Spirit instead of Smarts (remaining calm in the face of danger), and offer two versions of Quick, normal and Quick-Witted, where the first requires Agility and the other Smarts, so character who does focus on one Attribute over the other has an Edge they can take to improve their initiative.

Anyway, that seems like it would cover all the points desired while retaining as much of the beneficial aspects of the core system as possible.
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Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com

[Mechphisto]

[Croquemitaine]

Maybe you could just let the cards dictate initiative as usual, but allow players who really feel the need to act sooner in a particular round to spend a bennie and then make a roll using one of those attributes. Maybe every raise let's them go one rank sooner?

This keeps the speed and simplicity of the official system while still allowing character abilities to play a part when it matters.

[Mechphisto]

[Cryonic]

The other problem that I don't think anyone has brought up about this system is that it prevents one from creating certain builds for characters. E.g. a nimble guy that isn't fast on the draw (just good with his hands) or the very bright, but slow reacting doctor. The initiative system as built allows these to exist (the player doesn't take the edges that give them chances at better cards) while allowing the dim-witted, but speedy slugger or the bright, but butter-fingered wizard without the attributes directly affecting them in combat.

[Mechphisto]

[77IM]

One compromise is to do a complicated Trait-based initiative on round 1 (to see who acts first), possibly an extension of the Surprise rules. Then do regular, card-based initiative after that (representing the chaos of combat). This keeps regular turns fast and doesn't have as many side-effects as a whole new initiative mechanic.

-- 77IM
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Stuff I made: Arcane Abilities · Talent Edge · Savage Fading Suns · Savage Wuxia!

[Gavinwulf]