Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

MGibster · Novice Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 66

I hope this is the proper forum. I suppose you could also include swimming.

Most of the skills in Savage Worlds have pretty broad applications. For example Fighting covers every melee weapon from fists to kukris to whips. The Boating skill covers everything needed to operate a ship including tying knots, making simple repairs, etc. Swimming and Climbing are two skills in Savage Worlds that seem to have very narrow applications.

I'm usually hesitant to modify the SW rules because minor changes can equal a big deal. However I went ahead and eliminated Climbing from my current campaign and stated that PCs can just make a straight Strength or Agility roll depending on their desires. I also thought it might be better to just eliminate Swimming and Climbing and making a skill called Athletics that would cover both skills. Or maybe just eliminate them altogether and have them default without penalty to Agility or Strength.

Any thoughts?

Marc

Kakaze · Seasoned Joined: 24 Jun 2010 Posts: 220

In my group, we just have house ruled the Athletics skill. It works very well and people seem more likely to take it than either Climbing or Swimming.

Snate56 · Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:25 am Post subject:

Well, to each their own, I suppose. In a fantasy setting, a whole lot of people don't know how to swim, so if you eliminate it you remove some of the differences people naturally have. Those skills, and Hindrances like Illiteracy, help define characters.

For climbing, it's not just skinnying up a tree. It covers whether you can freeclimb that cliff face; all 200 feet of it, whether you can skinny up that tree fast enough to escape the bear, whether you can sneak into the castle by scaling that sheer wall.

In a lot of cases, they may not come into play much; It depends on the GM to make them more useful or not.

SteveN
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77IM · Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:32 am Post subject:

One middle-ground is to use Strength for simple climbing (pulling yourself up onto a ledge, pulling yourself up a rope quickly) and Climbing for complicated scenarios (Snate56's example of scaling a 200' cliff face). So characters without the skill don't feel gimped and those with the skill feel more unique (it is more of a skill and less of something we all learned on the jungle gym).

I do like the idea of a combined Athletics skill though. You could have minor hindrances of "Can't Climb" and "Can't Swim" for when it's important to the character concept (the desert warrior might have Can't Swim for example, and is treated as untrained for swimming).

-- 77IM
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kreider204 · Heroic Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 1712

CAM · Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:14 am Post subject:

I treat all actions like Common Knowledge rolls (Smarts -2) except I allow any attribute to be used, so it means everyone can attempt most actions (within reason).

Having Skills makes things considerably easier, especially if the GM is applying difficulty modifiers to the target number according to the situation.

So I'ld allow characters to attempt climbing with either Agility -2 or Strength -2, maybe Agility -2 for swimming etc and so forth.

This way everythings covered, but there is a practical use to learning Skills

GranFalloon · Veteran Joined: 21 Mar 2007 Posts: 654

I usually roll climbing and swimming into an Athletics skill, but I left them alone for 50 Fathoms. Ropes and oceans, there's a lot of reason for both.

I also roll Tracking into the Survival skill. You know. Just in case you wanna be like me.

Lord Lance · Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:32 am Post subject:

I think those skills are useful 'cause they "explain" how to use them in the game. Of course you can avoid "guts" in a no-horror game, or gambling or tracking or survival in a school dating rpg... but have the rules to manage those situations is always nice.
So I think that S.W. should be a good, complete core book, then you can houserule it a little, if you like so.
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Snate56 · Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:48 am Post subject:

maeloke · Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject:

My group has also houseruled climbing and swimming into one Athletics skill. Even with it's expanded utility, it's still not a real heavy investment for many characters, but at least people take it (as opposed to Climb and Swim, which almost never were).

Of course, there are a lot of sort of weird, narrow skills in the base list. Considering SW:EX is a setting-neutral book, the inclusion of boating, gamble, and tracking all seemed a bit odd to me. Ah well, that's what houserules are for.
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MGibster · Novice Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 66

Clint · Site Admin Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 16267

One thing to keep in mind is that not all skills are designed the same way. Maybe Climbing and Swimming don't come up very often (really dependent on the GM of course), but when they do, guess which character is suddenly very important to success.

That's the scale to consider when pondering such a change; if the skill is unique, then the character with it is special. As it becomes more ubiquitous (either as a generic grouped skill or a simple Attribute roll), then characters become more uniform in capability, and the challenges presented by scenarios requiring said Skills are lessened.

Not necessarily a "good/bad" thing, just an effect to be aware of when fitting it to personal play style.
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Greg K · Seasoned Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 143

I am not going to hold it against anyone for combining swim and climb. Personally, I won't nor will I play in a game that does, because as Clint wrote it matters when it does come up in play, but that is just my preference.

Mylon · Seasoned Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 295

What if Athletics affected the run die? I'm not sure how it ought to affect it though.

I think the system could do with some expansion on the 'common knowledge' chart, with skills like running based on vigor and climbing based on strength and music playing based on spirit and so on. Ways to cover all of the bases with non-adventuring skills so character sheets are more focused on adventuring skills.

Snate56 · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:57 am Post subject:

kreider204 · Heroic Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 1712

It depends on the setting for me. In a standard fantasy setting, I want to be able to reflect the fact that, for example, my halfling thief is a great climber but a poor swimmer, so I keep them separate. On the other hand, I'm currently working on a conversion set in modern day America where such things are less important, so I have an Athletics skill that covers climbing, swimming, general athletics (sports, etc.), and can substitute for the run die if it's higher.
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MGibster · Novice Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 66

TommyBrownell · Veteran Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 775 Location: Oklahoma

Greg K · Seasoned Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 143

Cap'n · Novice Joined: 03 Jun 2011 Posts: 1

Personally I think keeping ones head above water and swimming effectively against a current etc are different. One is unskilled use and the other training specific.

Likewise there is a big difference between shinning up a drain pipe and setting up a belay or progressing on a very technical climb. I tend to use climbing as a covering mountaineering not just the classic thief wall crawling ability.

They don't come into play that often in most of my games but I keep them seperate as both of this skills can have life saving (or very terminal) effects if you don't have them/fail badly.