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Clint
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 Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron Blessing wrote: | | These aren't specifically covered in the Companion, but simple setting rules will fix all the above. Problem one can be solved by setting static PP levels and not allowing upgrades without a major event. Problem two is more easily solveable. For minions: Toughness damage = Incapacitated. |
Actually, #1 is specifically covered as one of the offered Setting Rules under Inherent Power is Total Power where the characters have all their PPs up front, and any other level-up increases work as per normal SW.
And #2 is pretty much covered in that standard Minor and even Major Criminals (in the Other Enemies section) don't have Heavy Weapons or anything resembling the capabilities of Drones in NE (who aren't really intended to be pushovers especially in the first session of the campaign).
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Ron Blessing
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Joined: 08 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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My Summary
So I'm sticking to my guns as far as reviews go. I don't consider this a review. Here are some thoughts, though.
1) I could have used my store discount combined with the full priced PDF and saved $7.25 over the preorder bundle. I went ahead with the bundle anyway because I wanted more of my dollars to go to PEG. Having gone through the book, I'm not disappointed by my decision.
2) This is not a knock, just an illustration. White Wolf charges about $1 per character for their Ready-Made character PDFs. There are 105 characters, mostly ready to play, in this book. Holy crap!
3) This manages to make just about everything in comics doable in Savage Worlds, while managing to maintain the feel of Savage Worlds. That's a huge feat! I'll admit there are things that can't be done, but those types of powers and characters work much better in comics than they could in play with a group. I don't miss Time Travel or Precognition. Seriously.
In closing, I know there was a "Thanks Clint" thread already, but I know how hard Clint worked on this book, all while maintaining his myriad other duties. He kicked himself (when Joel wasn't kicking him, that is--I'm positive it was out of love  ) often with how long (in Clint's estimation) the book took to be ready. To this end I have two things to say to Clint:
Thanks, man!
-and-
You can't rush awesome!
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Ron Blessing
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Clint wrote: | | Ron Blessing wrote: | | These aren't specifically covered in the Companion, but simple setting rules will fix all the above. Problem one can be solved by setting static PP levels and not allowing upgrades without a major event. Problem two is more easily solveable. For minions: Toughness damage = Incapacitated. |
Actually, #1 is specifically covered as one of the offered Setting Rules under Inherent Power is Total Power where the characters have all their PPs up front, and any other level-up increases work as per normal SW.
And #2 is pretty much covered in that standard Minor and even Major Criminals (in the Other Enemies section) don't have Heavy Weapons or anything resembling the capabilities of Drones in NE (who aren't really intended to be pushovers especially in the first session of the campaign). |
See how awesome Clint is at his job? Right here to correct me! 
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jpk
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Location: Tazewell, East Tennessee, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron Blessing wrote: | | See how awesome Clint is at his job? Right here to correct me! |
We're actually looking at starting a full squad, like a volunteer fire department, to deal with the volume.
What was that? "All out of love, of course," you said, right?  |
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jpk
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron Blessing wrote: | Chapter Six: Rogue's Gallery
...
There's even a Legendary team called the Graveyard Shift. |
While they might be lower-case legendary, the Graveyard Shift are all Seasoned with 25 experience points. At least I believe that's what their introduction that I just reviewed says. |
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SavageChristian
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Just to reemphasize Clint's point regarding henchmen taking down heroes "too quickly" in a Savage Supers game.
In Necessary Evil almost all of the enemies have Heavy Weapons with an AP 4. This makes point expenditures on Armor less worthwhile than normal.
But this is an artifact of NE and not Savage Worlds as a system. Necessary Evil's opponents are specifically armed to take on powerful supers and take them down -- even the drones.
A normal superhero campaign wouldn't have so many AP HWs hanging around.
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Savage Jason
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Clint wrote: | | Ron Blessing wrote: | | These aren't specifically covered in the Companion, but simple setting rules will fix all the above. Problem one can be solved by setting static PP levels and not allowing upgrades without a major event. Problem two is more easily solveable. For minions: Toughness damage = Incapacitated. |
Actually, #1 is specifically covered as one of the offered Setting Rules under Inherent Power is Total Power where the characters have all their PPs up front, and any other level-up increases work as per normal SW.
And #2 is pretty much covered in that standard Minor and even Major Criminals (in the Other Enemies section) don't have Heavy Weapons or anything resembling the capabilities of Drones in NE (who aren't really intended to be pushovers especially in the first session of the campaign). |
Yar. I am convinced and am off to buy the PDF.
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redwulfe
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Joined: 09 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: |
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I was curious is the material in NE necessary now? I mean is there anything in there but the setting that you would buy the book for? Is all of the material, rules wise in the companion?
Red |
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SavageChristian
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:28 am Post subject: |
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The Necessary Evil campaign is one of the funnest memories I have in gaming. The setting and campaign are wonderful. The SPC might be a better buy for "players," but GMs should definitely pick up and run NE.
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Sitting Duck
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Ron Blessing wrote: | New Hindrances:
<snip>
Gloater
<snip>
Monologuer |
IIRC Gloater was essentially a monologuing Hindrance in NE. Is there anything in particular which differenciates the two?
| Ron Blessing wrote: | | Finally, Dinosaurs. Also, there's a sidebar that gives some advice and rules for modifying the listed enemies. Undead T-Rex? Done! |
All the better to reenact Dead Beat.
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IamDGMartin
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Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 59
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Sitting Duck wrote: | | Ron Blessing wrote: | New Hindrances:
<snip>
Gloater
<snip>
Monologuer |
IIRC Gloater was essentially a monologuing Hindrance in NE. Is there anything in particular which differenciates the two? |
Without giving away the actual rules, they are both kinda the same thing only taking place at different times during a turn/encounter. Monologuer kicks in based on your card for that turn of combat.
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clackey
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:35 am Post subject: |
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I hate to be the negative Nelly here, but I'm totally disappointed. Most of this stuff is just reprinted from Necessary Evil. I shelled out $15 for the PDF and frankly won't use most of it. There were maybe two pages worth of stuff in here that I would use that wasn't Necessary Evil.
If I had it all to do again I would skip it. |
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FoxBlue
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Posts: 453
Location: Fort Collins
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| clackey wrote: | I hate to be the negative Nelly here, but I'm totally disappointed. Most of this stuff is just reprinted from Necessary Evil. I shelled out $15 for the PDF and frankly won't use most of it. There were maybe two pages worth of stuff in here that I would use that wasn't Necessary Evil.
If I had it all to do again I would skip it. |
I don't have the Supers Companion yet, but so much of NE is pretty specific to x-men level villains fighting evil aliens (no power level knobs, the hindrances are more villainous than heroic, and a lot of the equipment is specific to an alien invasion campaign), I'm not sure how it could both include what others have mentioned and be mostly reprint (beyond what is unavoidable, they both use the same system and super power rules so repetition is necessary). Is there any anything in particular you feel is missing?
I'm interested in the product and am just curious to hear what criticism is out there before buying. The discrepancy between between opinions is somewhat confusing...
Drew Fox. |
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Clint
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| FoxBlue wrote: | | I'm not sure how it could both include what others have mentioned and be mostly reprint (beyond what is unavoidable, they both use the same system and super power rules so repetition is necessary). |
I can't say for certain, but I can only guess the prior opinion is based on material that would be used.
The book is 141 pages up to the Index, and from page 61 on, absolutely nothing is used from NE. So clearly most of the book is not from NE, but perhaps none of that would be material that would be used.
That said, admittedly, the rules are mostly the same, but we have always stated from the very first moment the product was announced that it would use the same basic power system from NE.
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fanchergw
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Joined: 13 May 2003
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Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Clint wrote: | | FoxBlue wrote: | | I'm not sure how it could both include what others have mentioned and be mostly reprint (beyond what is unavoidable, they both use the same system and super power rules so repetition is necessary). |
I can't say for certain, but I can only guess the prior opinion is based on material that would be used.
The book is 141 pages up to the Index, and from page 61 on, absolutely nothing is used from NE. So clearly most of the book is not from NE, but perhaps none of that would be material that would be used.
That said, admittedly, the rules are mostly the same, but we have always stated from the very first moment the product was announced that it would use the same basic power system from NE. |
Hi Clint,
Are there any changes to the powers or power costs beyond the two items Ron mentioned on the previous page?
Gordon |
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clackey
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I'll tell you what you get new...
pg 1-6 = Old Stuff
pg 7 = New Edges: Team Leader & Team Player
Pg 8-12 = Mostly new stuff on power levels of games and powering it up or down. cool stuff
pg. 13-23 = gear from NE
pg. 24-59 = Powers, all from NE. There is a side bar that's new about switching powers.
pg. 60-65 = New chapter on Headquarters. New, but rules I won't use.
Pg. 66-132 = A ton of pre-gen characters. New, but I don't need 70 pgs of this.
pg. 133-138 = Pre-gen generic villians, thugs and monsters. New
pg 139-142 = index
So about 10 pages of new rules, about 75 pages of stats of characters that were made up for this book (and that I would never use) and about 60 pages of reprinted material.
Worth 15 bucks for a PDF? No for me. I love Savage Worlds and I love most of their stuff. Perhaps my expectations were off, but that's what I get for not checking it out before I buy, jumping the gun and not looking at it at my local store. |
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Clint
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| fanchergw wrote: | | Are there any changes to the powers or power costs beyond the two items Ron mentioned on the previous page? |
The two things previously mentioned were Headquarters and Switchable, right?
If so, yeah, there are some other things, but nothing huge in the base effects. The main one I recall off the top of my head is the stacking of attack penalties (or lack thereof).
Let's see, there is also...
A new Modifier for Darkvision
A slight change (limit) on Deflection
A new Modifier for Illusion
A new Modifier for Immunity
A new Modifier for Minions (but seen around here)
Some major changes to Paralysis and Modifiers
There are also some "clarifications" like certain touch powers that have to hit exposed skin or expanding existing Elemental Tricks for other "elements."
Hmm, that's all I can think of specifically regarding the powers themselves. Course, we also have little changes like changing some of the references from "villain" to "hero," though we do note at the very beginning that we use both terms interchangeably.
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FoxBlue
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the new stuff looks like stuff I'd use. I believe Lair was the single power that received the most power points in my last NE game... So more headquarters rules are very welcome. And power level knobs are nice to have, it was hard to tinker with NE power level without breaking the system, the guidance is very welcome.
Drew! |
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SavageChristian
Seasoned
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 157
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have to say as a complete super hero companion to Savage Worlds, this is an excellent product. It has a workable supers system and hordes of new NPCs. It also has some advice about running a supers campaign. A great investment if you only own the SWEX.
I own NE, and love that campaign, but I still think this is an awesome value. There are over 100 villains/heroes for use in your campaigns. This is a huge bargain.
Some people may not want a villain book, but I certainly do. I would have bought this book even if it were only the pages devoted to villains and teams.
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"If you can geek out about it, we will"
Can't resist...Must read more Savage Worlds...Aaaaaaah! |
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IamDGMartin
Novice
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 59
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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This book is great no matter how it's sliced. The Powers have some nice tweaks, and even though the majority of the powers didn't change any, everything around them has gained depth and options to make games much better.
Also, as a player in a NE game and not the GM I would much rather have had SPC as an option. Now that it is, I'm probably not going to touch the NE book until after the campaign (yes, I'm doing my best to avoid spoilers, as it's my first time through NE!).
Overall, I'd say this is easily at the same level of the Fantasy Companion, and I can't wait for the next in the series.
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