Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Lord Lance]

Hi guys!

I need your help. I'm preparing a Martial Arts Campaign, and the feature most wanted by my players is:

Can I throw light punches? Can I throw medium kicks? Can I throw heavy elbow smashes??

Of course, I don't want to make differentiations between punches / kicks and so on, but a fine tune of light/medium/heavy hits could be "in theme".

Medium manoeuvres are the standard fighting attacks.
Heavy attacks are the standard "wild attacks".
My dubs are on the light attacks, fast hits that have more chances to hit, but do less damage:
Maybe +2 to hit, like the touch attacks for the mages? maybe just +1?

Or another way to read them could be an attack without bonus to hit, but that expose less the attacker to a counterattack, so a +1 to Parry?

And about the damage? No chances to do raises? No Aces? Just a fixed modifier? Like heavy attacks do +2 damage, the lighter ones could do -2?

I need a balanced system for those light attacks, I don't want to twist the system upside down...

[Sadric]

Heavy attacks are wild attacks, this is clear.
Lets go with the standard rules, what could we use for the light attack.

What if you say a light attck is a trick. A trick is "something that dont hurt the foe but unbalance or confuse him somehow".
For example, a flurry of light punches, pulling some ears or lips, a jab on the nose, such things.

Lets say all light attacks are a contested Agility roll and go with the normal trick rules. You could even give some fighting styles a edge (or its symple part of the style, like the fencing schools) like Dirty Fighter or Akrobat, that gives a bonus on the Agility roll.

[Lord Lance]

Nice try, Sadric, but I think my players will start to mumble when I'll try to draw close the light attack with the agility trick...

Still searching a solution...

[Araknir]

Give them +1 to hit, but no extra damage dice if they score a raise.
Should emulate the quick, more precise, but less damaging attacks

[DanOrc]

A +1 or a +2 to hit, extra d6 as normal on a raise, but no dice can ace on damage.

That would allow the mechanic of it being a more precise and targetted hit, getting the extra die of damage, but there's just not enough force behind it to do the potential 32 damage or some such that can happen with acing.
_________________
Ceci n'est pas une signature.

[Tuesday]

If you don't want to make it an "Agility" trick, then make it a Fighting trick - I roll Fighting, you roll Fighting, we contest, and the result is treated like any other Trick.

[Clint]

Consider changing the scale...

A Light attack is a "normal" attack.
A Medium attack is a Wild Attack. (+2/+2; -2 Parry)
A Heavy attack is a Wild Attack Called Shot to the Vitals (-2/+6; -2 Parry)
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com

[Lord Lance]

Thanks Clint, but this is an escalating ladder of pain!! I know you try to keep all the situations "within main rules", but should be nice to hear a experienced comment about some ideas exposed previously, to create a lighter attack (or, am I wrong to keep thinking about a lighter attack!?).

Now i see that the first fighter winning the initiative could end the fight easily, if he can hit with a cool heavy punch in the vitals (or simply "at the head").
Almost every fighter in play will have "Unarmed Fighter" or "Improved Unarmed Fighter", so they do STR+d6 or STR+d8 damage, and there are no armors in play...
Maybe I'm wrong (I'll study the behavior of the system in the first combats) but I'm starting to think that the amount of damage should be a problem for my new campaign. In a 1-on-1 combat, the first doing even just a shaken condition and a single wound could have the key of victory...
Maybe it's a good idea to give the characters an "escalating" thougness linked to their rank, something like:
- Novice 0
- Seasoned +1
- Veteran +2
- Heroic +3
- Legendary +4
Or just give'em a +1 (Veteran) and a +2 (Legendary), while at Seasoned and Heroic let them choose a free "hardening" Edge between brawny, strong willed, combat reflexes, or nerves of steel?

Finally, I want to report here a question "redirected" from the Official Question Tread:
Florentine should be nice for a quick unarmed warrior, like a kung-fu one. Of course, in this campaign I don't have weapons and shields... How can I change this Edge to use with my martial arts advetures? Maybe the character can't do heavy attacks (like wild attacks or berserk attacks), and the edge works only versus enemies that don't have Two Fisted (so, the slow-type ones, as they have just "1 weapon")? I really can't think a variant use of this edge, without create a brand-new edge that every fighter would take just to powerup their fighting roll (reducing the gangup too).

[Tuesday]

Assume combatants have Strength D10, Vigor D10, Improved Unarmed for a D6 "weapon" damage, and Fighting D10.

That person rolls D10-2 with a wild die of D6-2, looking to hit a 7 (the Parry of a guy with Fighting D10). This means he's got about a 25% chance of hitting *at all*, and, if he does, he does D10+D6+4 damage - for an average of 14 against a Toughness of 7. That's 1 Wound - the victim spends a Benny, rolls, Toughness D10 + Wild Die, and has an 80% chance of eliminating the Wound *and* the Shaken, immediately.

So no, I'm not worried about the first hit ending the fight - a *really good* combatant has a *25%* chance of making his opponent have an *80%* chance of spending a Benny.

[UmbraLux]

[dentris]

Light attack: +1 to parry but damage cannot ace
Medium attack: normal attack
Heavy attack: wild attack
_________________
But the Voice consoles me and it says: "Keep your dreams;
Wise men do not have such beautiful ones as fools!"
--Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal, 1857, Translated by William Aggeler, 1954

[Lord Lance]

[GreenTongue]

As far as extra defense, consider the setting rule of giving a bennie every scene. With bennies gained not raising the starting bennie pool.
These bennies can then be used for the great "Come Backs" that are seen in Kung Fu movies, as shakens and wounds are "overcome".
=

[Tuesday]

Lord Lance:

[AFDia]

You could allow a flexible Wild Attack: You can choose a number from 1 to 3 and this is your attack&dmg bonus and your parry penalty.

Perhaps +3/+3/-3 is too strong, but even then you have 3 possible attacks:
Light: +0/+0/-0
Medium: +1/+1/-1
Hard: +2/+2/-2

+3/+3/-3 could be an edge called "Very Hard Strike" or something like that.

[jamused]

I guess what I wonder is what is a light attack intending to accomplish outside of a match where points are being scored for a touch...Can you eventually put an opponent out with a succession of light attacks? Or are light attacks just meant to disorient and set up the opponent for a damaging attack?

[Lord Lance]

[Tuesday]

Yes, I'm sure, and yes, there's Official Word to support it.

Try here:
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19945&highlight=attribute+rank+hindrance

[longarms]

There is something unartful about giving a bonus to hit to both light attacks and heavy attacks, but medium attacks get no bonus.

That said, its hard to think of another solution that doesn't give a bonus to light attacks. One possibility would be to give a penalty to hit with light atttacks (a -1 or -2 to represent that light attacks are not well considered attacks), but in exchange the PC can get riposite counterstrikes for any attacks @ him the next round (representing that the quick attacks leave him in a good position to counterstrike). Obviously the riposite edge would not be selectable if you were doing it this way.

[Lord Lance]

x Thusday:
Hey man, you was f*****g right! Now I have to re-think some PG, to evalutate if it's better to pump up the "potential", or stay with an extra edge ...
Well, this thing of "creation is not levelling up" shaked me! I need to roll my Spirit!

x Longarms:
Well, a medium attack is ... a medium attack! So neither bonus nor penalties!!!

An heavy attack is a classical haymaker: you want to hit the enemy all costs, and do a lot of damage ... of course, if you miss you are hell open to a painful counterattack! (and wild attack rules are perfect for this one, I think). So you get more % to hit, and more damage, but penalty to parry.

Personally I think we miss the classical "I stay quite defensive, punchin' savvy, without unbalance myself and without opening too much, so I can react and parry/dodge better my enemy." Of course this kind of hits do less damage of a normal punch. So you get penalty to damage, and bonus to parry <<< ok, this mechanic is not definitive, I have to think about balance, negating Aces and giving +1 Parry...