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Savaged AFMBE coffee break of the damned questions ?

 
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irishvince
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Savaged AFMBE coffee break of the damned questions ? Reply with quote

Hi, okay, so I'm gonna officially be Gming my first game of SW. I went for a scenario I took from the Gm screen of All Flesh must be eaten a game from eden studios called '' Coffee break of the living dead'' (a Zombie/Survival horror scenario) . I always loved that scenario but could care less about their rule set. I'm really stoked about trying it with SW. The one thing I'm scared of is a TPK in the first hour or so of play. Don't get me wrong there will be PC death in the game, I don't want to tone down the deadliness of genre. I got a couple solution if it happens:

1- I'll have 3 players and 6 Characters (3 WC and 3 extras) If a Wildcard dies I'll bump the extra to a WC.

2-If they all die there's always the possibility to play a Tactical squad searching for any survivor (basically turning the scenario inside out.)

The question I have are:

Is it fair to the players to make the pre-gen like regular peoples (no one has more than d8 in fighting, shooting and the average is d4) instead of making them able to withstand the zombie hordes I'll throw at them ?

Do you think the Players will feel cheated ? (they are regular Savage worlds players and have a good understanding of the rules )

Would you feel cheated in a scenario like this ?

and Lastly do you have any tips and tricks to make this kind of sessions work good ?
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ScooterinAB
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I don't see a problem with it. I quite like using characters other people make. I find that it challenged me to play something else, rather than staying in my comfort zone.

One concern that I have is the toughness of the Zombies. In DLR, I found that non-WC Walking Dead are ultra, rediculously tough. As in the well armed and skilled party had some trouble taking care of like, 6. If your Zombies are stated like this, good like leaving the table without being lynched. Regular people just aren't going to stand a chance. However, if they are that more "one-punch, Ninja Commie Nazi" kind of mook, they will fair better.
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SlasherEpoch
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's not fair to assume normal people don't have any experience using firearms/martial arts, for one. A d8 cap is fine for novice characters.

It seems that SW does not handle pure survival horror as well as AFMBE. SW has Tricks, Wild Attacks, and Tests of Will built in so that almost anyone can directly affect combat as it comes up. Therefore, I encourage you to give all pregens at least a d6 in Fighting, Shooting, or Throwing in order to avoid frustrating PCs. Especially if it's your first time GMing the system, including a variety of options will allow you to test the system.


I also have a Guide to Cinematic Zombies, if you're looking for zombies that reflect movies and literature better. Regular SW zombies are surprisingly tough.
1. Reduce Parry by 1 or 2. Zombies don't make feints or block incoming attacks.
2. Reduce the called shot penalties for head shots to -2. Zombies don't dodge well.
3. Remember in SWEX that Undead no longer take 1/2 damage from piercing attacks.
4. If these are "only in the head" Romero zombies, then I have another suggestion, allow them to be shaken (but never Wounded) from normal non-called-shot damage. That simulates the idea that a shotgun blast sends one reeling, but can't kill it unless aimed at the head.

Hope you found that helpful.
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DaRealJudas
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlasherEpoch wrote:
I also have a Guide to Cinematic Zombies, if you're looking for zombies that reflect movies and literature better. Regular SW zombies are surprisingly tough.
1. Reduce Parry by 1 or 2. Zombies don't make feints or block incoming attacks.
2. Reduce the called shot penalties for head shots to -2. Zombies don't dodge well.
3. Remember in SWEX that Undead no longer take 1/2 damage from piercing attacks.
4. If these are "only in the head" Romero zombies, then I have another suggestion, allow them to be shaken (but never Wounded) from normal non-called-shot damage. That simulates the idea that a shotgun blast sends one reeling, but can't kill it unless aimed at the head.

Hope you found that helpful.


Well I most certainly did! Thank you. Very Happy
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Jordan Peacock
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlasherEpoch wrote:
I also have a Guide to Cinematic Zombies, if you're looking for zombies that reflect movies and literature better. Regular SW zombies are surprisingly tough.


Those are some pretty cool points! Smile I'll have to remember those next time I run a cinematic zombie scenario.

By the way, regarding PCs without any combat skills: The scenario can still be playable as long as PCs have something they can do other than stand and fight (or run). If the PCs are stuck in a featureless maze of corridors with a bunch of zombies ... yeah, lack of combat skills is going to mark the day, for sure.

I'd just make sure there's something that encourages the PCs to do something other than swing blunt objects at the nearest zombie. Most likely, I'd do that in one of two ways:

1) Put the PCs in a place where they have some opportunity to prepare for the inevitable zombie onslaught (such as setting up barricades, moving supplies to the roof and setting up there and then destroying or removing any stairs/ladders leading to it, finding makeshift weapons, maybe even setting up a trap or two).

And/or, 2) Put the PCs in an area with a lot of "props" they can make use of: vehicles, tools, boxes of heavy stuff that can be moved around or knocked over, flammible materials, furniture, etc. Even if you don't give them any time to make advance preparations, an environment with a lot of STUFF in it can inspire creative players.

(Letting the action take place in or near a hardware store, department store, sports store, hospital, outdoors supply store, etc., can inspire players to think of things they might find there that could be of use in a pinch.)

If you're using miniatures (or a wipe-off board or such), then it's good to make sure there are lots of props in the area, and that it isn't just a featureless grid. On the one hand, I tend to give players some leeway if they think of reasonable things that *should* be in their environment that I haven't necessarily depicted. ("Can I find a fire extinguisher?") On the other, I've found that having various things (couches, fuel canisters, tables, crates, a wrecked car, etc.) on the play area can inspire players as they look at the table.

(I just try to make it clear to the players that I'm not taking a literal approach: I don't necessarily have miniatures for *everything* in the environment. And one downside of the miniatures-centric approach is that it encourages players to think two-dimensionally; I don't represent every skylight and hanging light fixture above the PCs' heads, after all.)

Anyway, even for a character without any Fighting skill, he can perhaps be inspired by likely items in the environment to try different Tricks that could slow down the zombies. (E.g., knocking over a display of canned vegetables in hopes the zombies will stumble over the rolling cylinders, pushing over a shelf of stuff to fall on a zombie.) "Area effect attacks" can be made by dropping heavy objects, or setting things afire - and cinematic zombies don't usually attempt to dive for cover or dodge.

Another thought is that even if you want "ordinary" civilians who have no combat skills, there might still be the occasional guy who played high school football, etc., who has at least a d4 in Throwing - which could be used for tossing bricks at those zombies' heads (at least for distracting them or momentarily knocking them off balance), or - given some preparation - molotov cocktails. (Well, not that flaming zombies are really much of an improvement on the situation....)
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irishvince
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I will modify the Zombie from the SW:EX with your advices.I will certainly enforce the Shaken but no wound rule. Thanks I'll keep you all posted on how it went down.
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irishvince
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll keep the environment in mind! Nice advise too Mr. Peacock. Now i can't wait to pit the players against a horde of zombies Twisted Evil
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Jordan Peacock
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irishvince wrote:
Now i can't wait to pit the players against a horde of zombies Twisted Evil


Oh yeah, a few other random ideas:

*** Ramping Up the Zombie Factor:
In what few horror movies I can think of (I'm not exactly an expert on the genre), while there might be hints of a lumbering zombie horde in the background, the main characters (PCs) typically start off with an encounter with a SINGLE zombie, or a FEW zombies, and then it escalates into the inevitable stand-off with an entire horde of them only later on.

In dramatic terms, it provides a way to ramp up the shock value. ONE zombie is shocking. MORE zombies is shocking again, if presented in that order. But if you START with an entire horde of zombies, and the PCs actually survive it, a SINGLE zombie is probably anticlimactic by comparison.

In game terms, this can serve some purpose for the GM, especially if he hasn't had a chance to "test out" his stats ahead of time. That is, ONE way to start a fairly straightforward zombie apocalypse scenario would be to lay out the whole table with a cluster of PCs in a small building in the center, and the emptied contents of a Bag o' Zombies milling around the edges of the battle mat. That'd be the convention-game scenario Savage-Worlds-as-miniatures-game way of doing it, probably.

But for an RPG horror scenario, the PCs might just encounter ONE zombie at first, or a couple, and have a relatively easy time taking it out - a chance the PCs have to figure out what makes zombies tick (and what kills them) before they have to repeat the exercise en masse. (And, those failed Guts checks might not be immediately fatal if the PCs in their first encounter have the advantage of numbers.)


*** Zombie Scenario Misdirection:
It might be too late for this, as by now you might well have informed your players, "Hey, I'm going to run you guys through a zombie scenario!" However, one gimmick I occasionally enjoy pulling (occasionally, or it gets old) is to misdirect the PCs as to the focus of the adventure.

E.g., let's say I know it's going to be a zombie adventure, and I know that several of my players have read the Zombie Survival Guide and/or WWZ, and/or seen various zombie flicks, and they're experienced gamers. Even lacking PC combat skills, they'll pretty quickly figure out that the thing to do is to head for high ground with whatever they can carry, take out the stairs/ladders, and exploit the fact that zombies aren't very good climbers (and squirming zombies aren't very easy for other zombies to climb on top of, either). And then it's a matter of either picking off zombies at leisure with whatever they have, or slowly starving to death while waiting for a helicopter rescue that may or may not ever come.

Maybe I'd like to surprise them at least briefly. So, I set up the scenario to point to some other objective. There might be a zombie breakout going on, but it's something in the background news, and there might be reason for the PCs to be otherwise occupied and not paying all that much attention to it. For instance, maybe they're a bunch of thugs busy breaking into a warehouse to fight with some terrorists over a shipment (Crime City) - and then, surprise! (Okay, that wouldn't fit the "ordinary citizen" idea, since the Crime City pregens have combat skills and would presumably be well-armed, but it's just an example of how another adventure could be shoehorned into this - and I thought of it after someone else posted about using Crime City as an intro into a supernaturally-oriented campaign.)

Another possibility would be to present the game as a "murder mystery," where one or more of the PCs are sleuths. Surprise! The murder victim just got up and just ate the butler. Didn't see that coming, did you, Sherlock Holmes? ;D Okay, more seriously, there are various adventure scenarios that could bring together a bunch of "ordinary" people - or, at least, people with a skill set that might not be obviously tailored for dealing with a zombie outbreak. The idea would just be that the PCs have something to be focused on as their initial objective, but along the way they'll eventually get some hints that something weird is going on out there and have to shift gears as the initial objective might suddenly seem very unimportant compared to the ultimate need to survive. (And it could lead to the curious situation of having former NPC adversaries becoming allies-of-necessity as the PCs and former adversaries at least have in common that they still have pulses and an intense desire NOT to be devoured alive by zombies. Just be careful not to entrust your life to that NPC ally: he might break and run, lock the door behind him, and leave you as "zombie bait" at an inopportune moment....)

Anyway, this last bit may be an entirely unnecessary complication; it's just something that came to mind while thinking of various ways to put a memorable twist on a "basic" scenario.
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irishvince
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jordan , ten thousand thanks for the zombies Flats they are amazing !!!!
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Jordan Peacock
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

irishvince wrote:
Jordan , ten thousand thanks for the zombies Flats


The original version of this flats page was put together as a spur-of-the-moment thing for a scenario that Clint Black ran at ... er ... some convention or the other (I don't recall which one). The basic scenario involved a world that'd been hit by a zombie apocalypse, where humanity's survivors had adapted their tactics. A team of specially-equipped "zombie-fighters" was tasked with clearing out a hotel for use as a base of operations. I believe he used the floorplan of the hotel where the convention was being held as a basis for the area explored by the PCs.

Mr. Black already had a Bag o' Zombies to use for the zombies, but he could use a few flats to represent the PCs - so I made a few variations on two poses/figures (male and female). It wasn't enough to fill a whole page, so I made some zombie designs, made variations of them (mirror flip, color change), and completed a sheet.

Anyway, my laptop underwent a tragedy a little while back, but I managed to extract all the documents from it, and this past weekend I dug through my recovered files and found the sheet - and sent a sample to Mr. Hensley. He thought it might be useful to have a sheet of just zombies (since the "zombie-fighters" were of very specialized use for a particular scenario), so I thought I'd try to make a few more zombies really quickly to fill out the page.

So, Monday night, I had a digital camera on hand, and called up some friends, and took snapshots! My wife was the model for C/D and K ("goth girl zombie"). I've also drafted her to help with other pictures, such as the cover of DTA #9 (the latest one), and also as a couple of the "lady pirates" from the Age of Piracy figure flats from TAG. (For the latter, she actually sewed up her own pirate costumes for a convention we went to a couple of years ago, so I couldn't pass up the chance to take some pictures and use them for a project.)

An older Halloween picture of my niece served as a model for L ("little kid zombie"). Some friends posed for some of the others. (The remaining ones are made from composites from various sources, since it's hard to find pictures of businesspeople lumbering along zombie-style.)

So, I hastily "zombified" some of the snapshots that I thought had turned out better, did some color variants, and pasted them in, instead of the zombie-fighters. Mr. Hensley created the "sampler" page that goes in front of the figure flats page; I think a lot of the sample artwork on the front page was done by Cheyenne Wright.

Oh yeah: If you need some "ordinary folks" figure flats to represent PCs, I made a few unarmed bystander types in the Crime City figure flats sets - particularly Set #2. In the upper left hand corner, there's a businessman ("lawyer") and a businesswoman, at least, a call girl (2 slight variants), and a homeless man. On the borderline are the "Skinhead Punks" who at least look like they're holding improvised weapons (crowbar and bat), and then the Police Officers who at least have good reason to be armed.

Given the name of your scenario, I suppose what you'd probably find more useful would be a barista or two, but - alas! - I haven't come up with anything like that yet.
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Yuri
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of things about the Savaged Coffee Break of the Dead

They have some pregenerated characters in the book. I would recommend using those characters as a basis for making your characters. A couple of the characters did have some combat ability, especially the Disgruntled Ex-Employee. But I think that a couple were handy with Hand-to-Hand combat.

I ran this adventure using the Unisystem. One thing that the players started to do was use the enviroment (chairs, tables, and other things) to stop and defeat the zombies. Jordan's comments above are really great!

Yuri
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Count Zero
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep us updated on how the session goes. I always liked the intro to that adventure and the unique little event each character has on their way to work before they enter the elevator together.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We played the game last Friday. It was an okay game, not the best game I ever had but it was okay. I'll try to summarize what happen and what worked, what didn't and what I would've done differently.

WARNING SPOILER FOR COFFEE BREAK OF THE LIVING DEAD FOR ALL FLESH MUST BE EATEN.


The Players/The Characters: (I might post them but I dont have the stat with right now)

Adam was playing ''the Energetic Intern'' that work at a bank, mostly making coffee for ungrateful bosses...

Mike was playing ''the Failed Writer'' that worked at bank as a rebound job but still dreams to get publish one day.

Andrew was playing ''the Ex-Employee(Security guard)'' that lost everything and is planning on taking revenge on the CEO of the bank by shooting them all.

That was my 3 players and their Wildcard Characters. I had 3 Extra that would become WC if the main character died.

'' The Bling King'' CEO of the Jewelery Barn a retail jewelery store chain who has their office in the same building has the bank.

'' the Shy secretary'' who works for the VP of the bank.

'' The Vice-President'' a self-made man that appreciate the trapping of power.



Okay, the game started with the character waking up and doing their everyday routine: Shower, breakfast, and ride to work. On the ride to work they hear a message on the radio. Apparently there was a Terrorist attack in their city. The Genetech Labs exploded and the Police was establishing a security perimeter around the lab. Luckily for them their work was just outside the actual perimeter.

On their way to work:

-''The Intern'' notices a bum coming toward his car, pulls down his window and yell some kind of empty threat which the bum replies by a a string of insanity.

-'' The Writer'' is stop at a Police Barrage, The officer ask where is going and let him go, telling him they are evacuating the Hospital. '' Ex-Employee'' wakes up in 5 days of fast food wrapper in the back of his car and a Police officer knocks on his car door and politely ask him to move his car.

-'' The Ex-employee'' looks clearly drunk, so the officer ask for license and registration and goes to process it in the Cop car, ''The Ex-Employee'' floors it and escape with his car, The Cop get out of the car looking like he's going to pursue but is stop by other cops putting the perimeter barrier.

***** TO BE CONTINUED WHEN I GET BACK HOME FROM WORK*******
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

***** CONTINUED**********

At Work:

-'' The Intern'' had an early visit from ''The VP'' asking him to give him the numbers for the last trimester on his desk before 4pm. So ''the Intern'' Frantically start working on it, but the network suddenly goes down. He has to call Tech Support and gets stuck on hold for 2 hours.

-'' The Writer'' settle at is desk and get a visit from Bob the Mail room guy, He an annoying leech with no life that thinks ''the Writer'' is his friend. They chit-chat about the terrorist attack and then ''The Writer'' is asked to go in a formation on the new software. A very very boring formation....

-''The Ex-Employee'' grab his bag full of guns and proceed to get inside and with a very persuading talk with the guys (his old colleague) he gets inside the building and starts riding the elevator up and down, starting to have second thought about is old revenge scheme.

Coffee break:

So tech support tell ''The intern'' the problem wont be solve for another hours, so he decides to go for a coffee downstairs. At the same time the formation stop for a 15 min break so ''The Writer'' and ''the Secretary'' who where falling asleep decide to take a coffee break too. So everyone meet in the Elevator. who starts getting down toward the first floor. But somewhere between the third and second floor and big screech is heard and the elevator stops. A couple min later the lights out. The guys start looking around for a way to exit the elevator. But first they pick up the Emergency phone and get a strange noise at the other end(panting, a gunshot and a long moan). they manage to open the elevator trapdoor. And ''The Ex-Employee'' starts opening the doors to floor 3. Suddenly another gunshot and the door on Floor 4 burst in and a body falls down on the elevator cage. It's Bob! Everybody is a little shock, but Bob seems still alive... ''The Intern'' try to help him, but Bob suddenly grab him and start strangling him what seems to be a reaction to pain ( Wink ).

''The Ex-Employee'' opens the door to the third floor. It's a disaster people are fighting each other biting and scratching at each others faces. He manage to yank a water bottle from a dispenser and put it in to secure the doors. Some of the employees (Zombies) start shuffling towards '' The Ex-Employee'' another weird noise of bruising metal and the elevator cable just snaps and the characters are sent down to the basement in the elevator. ''The Ex-Employee'' Then yank the Bottle of water from between the doors and grab on to the inside of elevator cage to go help the other guys. Strangely no one is hurt but Bob (now a Zombie) is inside the elevator and try to bite and claw the characters but without any real result. The characters try to subdue him with Pepper spray, Kick to the groin, Bash to the head but without any result too until ''The Ex-Employee'' decide to pull a gun on him and blast his head unto the other guys. So fill with blood and gore the guys step out of the elevator.

The Basement:

The Characters discover a very dark basement lit only by red exit lights. They find the corpse of a security guard and then find out more crazed people (Up to now no one realizes they are Zombie, The Writer was flopping all his smarts skills and my players where really good at playing dumb. ) ''The intern'' then notices a Fire Emergency Break glass with an Axe and a hose in it. He tries to break the glass for a couple rounds and then in a moment of illumination realize you have to open it, opens it, take the Axe , reclose it and then smash the glass with the Axe. (A very funny description from the player) Then ''The writer'' grabs the pressurized hose and although he can barely hold it start hosing down the Zombies away from the group. '' The Ex-employee'' quickly realize he can head shot them with his shotgun and hand gun. Then the characters methodically wipe out parts of the basement. Until, something unexpected happens ''The VP'' finally realizes where he saw '' the Ex-employee'' and he realizes that he fired him. ''The Ex-employee'' turns around and shoot '' The VP'' yelling ''He a Zombie''.

( At that time my players where starting to get tired and none of them really react to that blatant killing. )

They finish clearing the basement then opened the door to the emergency staircase to realize there was a massive amount of Zombies coming down the stairs. They then barricaded themselves in the basement (They had killed approx. 15 zombie up to now with no problem really so I was surprised when they saw 30-35 of them that they decided to retreat.)

At that point it was getting late. (I was willing to run for a couple more hours but one of the Player had to go and the others where kind of tired of the Zombie game at that point) So in a narrative the Characters waited has the door from the staircase where open and then pull the trigger on each other.....

*****************************************************

What Didn't worked :

- I was so afraid of a TPK early that I didn't put a big enough challenge at first.

- I took the equipment directly from the original game but I should have restricted the bullets to force the players to not rely on guns to much.

- I was stress at first and kind of skip really fast on some event that could have call from good roleplay.

- I should have taken notes has I red the Adventure cause I was shuffling all around to find information.

- This scenario is a one-shot but not really good for a one night. I only got to maybe 1/3 of the scenario.

- The fact of having only 3 players took away a lot from the inter-character conflict and roleplay that is a big focus of this scenario. (some character , mostly the extra where put we too much in the background)

What Worked :

- The players where creative and found some pretty cool way of describing players actions.

-I handwaved the unexpected pretty well.

- Even if the second part of the game was mostly a big combat, It didn't feel heavy or bugged down.

- I use some cool audio from some fans of AFMBE and that gave a little something more to the game.

All and all It's a good feeling to get back behind the Gm screen (I hadn't Gmed in 4 years ) And I'm pretty stoked on having another go at Savage worlds in a different setting. I'm itching to play a pirate or Space pirate game.

Overall It was a Fun,Fast and Furious night!
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