Username:    Password:      Remember me       
Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Discussion Forum for PEG/GWG
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

How high is your Barrier?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW General Chat & Game Stories
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheLoremaster
Legendary


Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 2027
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:52 am    Post subject: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

Something I just realized: there's no guidelines on how high a Barrier spell should be. The Power states that it's 1" long and as wide as trappings indicate, but no indication about height. This can be important for games where Large characters appear, or in games where flying PCs or NPCs are common (like Slipstream).

So how high do you think Barrier should be? I'm thinking about it as a 1" square area (2 yds./m to a side), but that might underpower it in games with Large or flying creatures. Do you think 2"-3" is too much, or is it better addressed by Trappings?
_________________
"Your GM is metagaming ... and wrong!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17917

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

TheLoremaster wrote:
So how high do you think Barrier should be? I'm thinking about it as a 1" square area (2 yds./m to a side), but that might underpower it in games with Large or flying creatures.


Go 1" high. Remember each section of the barrier must be in contact with another section, but nothing says they all have to be in contact with the ground.

So if a caster wants a 2" high barrier, it's simply two sections stacked (for 2 PPs). That way it costs extra to make a higher barrier to work against a larger opponent, which makes sense to me.

Against flying opponents, they could do something similar except instead of just stacking one section on top of another have it come off at a 90 degree angle (or such depending on the trapping), giving the barrier a "roof."

Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
skylion
Veteran


Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 753
Location: Covington, Ky

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A BOX!

Thanks, Clint, I have a new way to mess with my players this Sunday.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Jordan Peacock
Legendary


Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 2449
Location: Orlando, Florida

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.


Actually, that's similar to something I quoted to a player who was shopping for new Powers to fit his "ice" theme, for Barrier: If he wanted to create an instant "ice dome," then I'd let him make one (just big enough to enclose the space for one character) for 5 sections. I'd assume, as part of the trappings of the spell, that a few corners would be cut, to make a nice round dome, rather than a box or cluster of hastily-stacked cubes. Smile (And for a sphere, it'd be 6 sections, continuing the progression.)
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jpk
Legendary


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 2242
Location: Tazewell, East Tennessee, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a recovering math major, I calculate the needed number of barrier sections while I'm waiting on my three of clubs to come up in the initiative rotation. I mean, except when I'm waiting on my five of clubs...

Spheres, pyramids, boxes, and cylinders are all pretty easy if you were scarred by your high school geometry teacher.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
razorwise
Legendary


Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 2959
Location: Hither and Yon

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
TheLoremaster wrote:
So how high do you think Barrier should be? I'm thinking about it as a 1" square area (2 yds./m to a side), but that might underpower it in games with Large or flying creatures.


Go 1" high. Remember each section of the barrier must be in contact with another section, but nothing says they all have to be in contact with the ground.

So if a caster wants a 2" high barrier, it's simply two sections stacked (for 2 PPs). That way it costs extra to make a higher barrier to work against a larger opponent, which makes sense to me.

Against flying opponents, they could do something similar except instead of just stacking one section on top of another have it come off at a 90 degree angle (or such depending on the trapping), giving the barrier a "roof."

Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.


Hiya Clint,

What a timely, well thought out response! It's almost as though you've contemplated this power as of late. Wink

Regards,

Sean
_________________
Reality Blurs
Reality Blurs Tweets!
The Razorwise Report
The Blur is Now on G+
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17917

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

razorwise wrote:
What a timely, well thought out response! It's almost as though you've contemplated this power as of late. Wink


Why, yes...

I am in fact looking at a new campaign at the first of the year, and I have been looking at the power system quite extensively. Quite extensively. Arrow

[Though I know what you meant. Razz ] Wink
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
AFDia
Veteran


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 821
Location: Austria/Vienna

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
TheLoremaster wrote:
So how high do you think Barrier should be? I'm thinking about it as a 1" square area (2 yds./m to a side), but that might underpower it in games with Large or flying creatures.


Go 1" high. Remember each section of the barrier must be in contact with another section, but nothing says they all have to be in contact with the ground.

So if a caster wants a 2" high barrier, it's simply two sections stacked (for 2 PPs). That way it costs extra to make a higher barrier to work against a larger opponent, which makes sense to me.

Against flying opponents, they could do something similar except instead of just stacking one section on top of another have it come off at a 90 degree angle (or such depending on the trapping), giving the barrier a "roof."

Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.


That means I can create a flagstone above my enemy and crush him with it? Very Happy

Sounds like Barrier is much more flexible than I've thought. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17917

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

AFDia wrote:
That means I can create a flagstone above my enemy and crush him with it? Very Happy


I didn't say it didn't have to be attached to something. Laughing

Though... that could be a possible trapping; the GM would just have to compensate for that (kind of like a fire barrier being immaterial but doing damage to anyone that passes through it).
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
AFDia
Veteran


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 821
Location: Austria/Vienna

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
AFDia wrote:
That means I can create a flagstone above my enemy and crush him with it? Very Happy


I didn't say it didn't have to be attached to something. Laughing

Though... that could be a possible trapping; the GM would just have to compensate for that (kind of like a fire barrier being immaterial but doing damage to anyone that passes through it).


What about "The barrier cannot be attached to anything" as a restriction? Wink So he can only make barriers which are tilting in any direction after pushing it.

But how much damage would such a falling or tilting barrier do? I would say the damage should be pretty high (hey it's a stone wall Very Happy ) but the targets get Agility rolls to jump away.

It reminds me of the dnd spell with the iron wall which drops to one side and buries anyone under it. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tuesday
Heroic


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you spend 5 sections to make a cube to trap your opponent when you could use 3 slanting ones to make a tetrahedron?

Or, if slants aren't allowed, 4 sections - a triangle on the ground and a roof.

(Just saving PP)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheLoremaster
Legendary


Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 2027
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuesday wrote:
Why would you spend 5 sections to make a cube to trap your opponent when you could use 3 slanting ones to make a tetrahedron?

Or, if slants aren't allowed, 4 sections - a triangle on the ground and a roof.

(Just saving PP)

Boy, you must not be from around here ... you with your fancy book-larnin' ... Wink

I'm thinking that the width and height of a Barrier should be related to its Trappings as well. A stone Barrier needs to be thick to stand erect, so it defaults to only 2 yds. high, while a fire Barrier doesn't, so it can be 6 yds. high, but only a few inches thick.

Or does that over complicate matters? Hrmmm...
_________________
"Your GM is metagaming ... and wrong!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Tuesday
Heroic


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"overcomplication" is a nonissue, unless you're allowing variable trappings for your PC on the fly. A different height or depth or weight or whatever is only a single trapping, defined when the PC takes the initial power or the New Power Edge.

The trick is to give a single, defined effect to a single, defined case of the power, or, if the power has variable trappings, to define the limits.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GoLu
Novice


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

AFDia wrote:

What about "The barrier cannot be attached to anything" as a restriction? Wink So he can only make barriers which are tilting in any direction after pushing it.

But how much damage would such a falling or tilting barrier do? I would say the damage should be pretty high (hey it's a stone wall Very Happy ) but the targets get Agility rolls to jump away.


Makes sense to me. Let's say 2d10 damage, but rather than a 4, you need to beat the target's Agility roll.

...although at this point, it's now a trapping for the burst power, rather than the barrier power.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17917

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

AFDia wrote:
But how much damage would such a falling or tilting barrier do? I would say the damage should be pretty high (hey it's a stone wall Very Happy )...


Yeah, but it's a stone wall that is an inch or two thick. It'd be like being hit with sheetrock. Wink

Okay, maybe a little more than that, but I think a pretty good reference is already there in the damage listed for a fiery wall.
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
AFDia
Veteran


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 821
Location: Austria/Vienna

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After thinking about it, the spell would indeed work better as a trapping for Burst or Blast. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sadric
Heroic


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 1126

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: How high is your Barrier? Reply with quote

Clint wrote:


Heck, a caster with barrier could put someone in a box if they wanted. 4 sections to surround them and one on top to close it off.


Leumund's secure shelter....?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jpk
Legendary


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 2242
Location: Tazewell, East Tennessee, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My current wizard has used barrier to box himself into safety at least as often as he's used it to slow down others.

With the Wizard Edge, it can be pretty hand to advance and, looky-there, full cover!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17917

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFDia wrote:
After thinking about it, the spell would indeed work better as a trapping for Burst or Blast. Wink


That is so going to be the trappings for some powers at some point in the future!

"Let's see your barrier face my awesome whirling blades of fury!!!" <Zzzz-chink-chink-chink>

"Let's see your face look up at my unassuming stone slab." <poink-plummet-Splat!>

"And once more, rock beats scissors."
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
AFDia
Veteran


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 821
Location: Austria/Vienna

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
AFDia wrote:
After thinking about it, the spell would indeed work better as a trapping for Burst or Blast. Wink


That is so going to be the trappings for some powers at some point in the future!

"Let's see your barrier face my awesome whirling blades of fury!!!" <Zzzz-chink-chink-chink>

"Let's see your face look up at my unassuming stone slab." <poink-plummet-Splat!>

"And once more, rock beats scissors."


Very nice! Laughing

Assuming the spell is a variation of Blast, I would bump up the damage to 2d8/3d8 instead of 2d6/3d6 and let the victims make an Agility (TN 4) roll to jump away.
I would call it "stone slab" or just "the extra killer" (cause they don't have a wild die to raise the chance to jump away) Very Happy Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW General Chat & Game Stories All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum