Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Ron Blessing]

Other than "GM Fiat," has anyone worked out a way to handle this topic?

I'm finding that Tactical Maps are really starting to irk me, but I want to come up with a non-subjective way to handle this issue.

I can work out, through description, things like Gang-Up and Sweep, but anything involving a Template seems pretty subjective. I don't want to discourage players from taking these types of abilities, nor do I wish to continue using maps, when avoidable.
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Ron Blessing
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[Clint]

Random number of targets affected?

SBT = 1d4
MBT = 2d6
LBT = 3d8
Cone = 2d6*

*Difference between a cone and a MBT could be lessening the chance of hitting an ally in the area.
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Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com

[Ron Blessing]

[Sadric]

I remember where using a skill roll in D&D for testing how much people we get inside a fireball.

For example (exact number depend on the numbers of foes, the area and so on.

SBT get two, plus one for a succes on your knowledge(Tactics or Arcane Knowledge)
MBT get four, plus one for a succes and each raise on your knowledge(Tactics or Arcane Knowledge)
LBT get six, plus two for a succes and each raise on your knowledge(Tactics or Arcane Knowledge)
A one on the knowledge die mean you have catched a ally under the template, snake yeyes mean while giving your allys a warning nearly all enemys could retreat and you hit only 1/2/3 enemys and the same numbers off allys. (SBT/MBT/LBT)

[Clint]

[Ron Blessing]

[Ron Blessing]

How does this look:

Area Effect Attacks Without a Tactical Map

When an attack calls for a Template, the attacker rolls the appropriate dice on the table below to determine how many enemies he can affect.

Small Burst Template - 1d4
Medium Burst Template - 2d6
Large Burst Template - 3d8
Cone Template - 2d6*

Any allies the GM deems are adjacent to chosen affected enemies must make an Agility roll to avoid the effects of the attack. This roll is made at a +2 bonus if the attacker got a Raise.

*In the case of a Cone Template, the Agility roll is at +2, or +4 with a Raise on the attack roll.
_________________
Ron Blessing
Check out:
Gamer: The Blogging
The Game's the Thing

[Clint]

[Ron Blessing]

Sweet. I'll post here when I've tested it, either tonight or this weekend.
_________________
Ron Blessing
Check out:
Gamer: The Blogging
The Game's the Thing

[Lord Lance]

Interesting topic. I need to think if could be equilibrated comparated to the standard powers (like simple bolts...)

[Squidfisher]

Ah, just as I was about to faff around with printing out and measuring the burst templates - for I too suffer from chronic maphate - someone far cleverer than me comes up with a far more elegant solution. Yet another reason I'm glad I migrated to SW when I decided D&D4e was... Less good than it might have been, shall we say.

[Minotaure]

An elegant solution but the numbers are much too high for my taste. 3d8 for an LBT means 24 opponents in the extreme.

A number one could barely get under the template on a tabletop.

What about:
Small Burst Template - 1d4
Medium Burst Template - 1d6 + 2
Large Burst Template - 1d8 + 4
Cone Template - 1d6*

[Lord Lance]

[poody]

Actually, what Ron has is pretty accurate for the size the of the templates.

Small Burst Template = 2" Diameter
Medium Burst Template = 4" Diameter
Large Burst Template = 6" Diameter
Cone Template = 9" long and 3" at it's widest point

When I placed them on a grid, the sbt covered nearly 4 full squares, the mbt covered nearly 12 full squares with 4 more being less than 50% covered and the lbt covered 32 squares at greater than 50% and 4 were nearly empty.

So, given that, I would probably run with Ron's figures.

BTW = the cone template, could in theory get 16 people, assuming they were positioned appropriately.

EDIT: Those figures are based on all squares being occupied... In a mass battle, this would be more likely than in non-mass battles, of course. I think some amount of common sense would need t come into play for this type of abstract scenario.
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[Lord Lance]

[Skycast]

I like what's been done here, especially since 100% of my gaming these days is done without a tactical map. However, I don't like that allies get an Agility roll to avoid damage. You either in the area of effect or you aren't, the power shouldn't distinguish between friend or foe unless written that way.
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Skycast

[Moracai]

An interesting subject.

I like the smaller numbers better, because rank & file formations are not very common in normal advunturing.

I tried making some numbers in a situation where the optimal distance between allied combatants is 1-2''. That led me to such a rough estimation that a small burst could be d4 targets, medium d6+1 and large d8+2. Cone could be d4+1. Which are very similar to Minotaure's numbers.

[Clint]

[Lord Lance]

Sorry Clint, but here the big problem is that with a single area attack (using no map), you can easily hit 6 - 7 enemies with a MBT, and 12 - 14 with a LBT, using numbers proposed by you. This is not an "exact template placement" issue, this is a "I can't believe that you, player, could set that template so that you can touch so many enemies on my (virtual) combat map". I think it's difficult, in a classical combat situation to have all that enemies packed up and waiting to be blasted away from a single attack...
Maybe if the enemies are in a single room, taked by surprise, you should fill a template with all those targets!

Maybe, all this Topic is quite useless: if a Master wants to play without a map, he should briefly analize the actual situation, and answer a player asking "can i take down those X enemies in front of me, fighting my buddies, with a single Large blast attack?" with a simple: "no, you can hit only those 2, or those 4 in this other part of the map" or "yes, you can, but in the area you also have to hit those 2 friends". Fast, Furious, Fun, Thrust in your Master.

[Clint]