Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Flynn]

Good Morning, All:

One of the biggest things that Savage Worlds brings to the table in terms of adventure/campaign creation is Plot Point style of writing up campaigns. In some ways, these are the Adventure Paths of the Savage Worlds settings, at least in my eyes. (I also like One Sheets, which I think is also a great idea.)

So, I guess my big question here is: how do you write your own Plot Point? I typically live from adventure to adventure, and my campaigns grow organically. I would love to be able to create a whole Plot Point campaign from beginning to end, but I don't quite know how to get there.

With that in mind, what kind of suggestions do you have that could help a fellow Savage out?

How would you suggest a Plot Point be structured, event-wise?

What are things to keep in mind when creating a Plot Point campaign?

What are things to avoid when creating a Plot Point campaign?

Are there any resources I could use (besides the existing Plot Point campaigns themselves) that would help me in these regards?

Really, anything you have to offer would be appreciated in this matter.

Thanks In Advance,
Flynn
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Jason "Flynn" Kemp
Samardan Press
http://www.lulu.com/samardanpress
Stellar Reaches, a free fanzine for Classic Traveller and Traveller T20
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[dentris]

Plot points adventures, IMHO, are all about freedom. There should be lots of opportunity for GM and players to stop after an adventure, do something else, and start again where they left. At least that's how all the official plot points I know of are working.

Also, I have the feeling plot points always have an epic scope. It isn't your everyday adventure, it's about something bigger.

I don't have anything else in my mind right now. I'll think about it a come back later.
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[Meren]

I always approach it the way I used to approach campaigns...I focus on whatever inspired me to run the game, usually there's a scene or encounter in my head when I start thinking of running a game...then I try to figure out where in the story it is and expand it both ways...lots and lots and lots of notes....once I've done that I create an outline (do not try to think in outline form....it slows the process) and after I have the outline I try to elaberate on each bit seperating the components...after that I see where I have big spots open for little filler stuff...wow this sounds like a lot of work and it is but it's also a lot of fun.

[steelbrok]

Plot poinbts also seem to be designed to pull the characters around the setting, letting players explore different aspects of it.

[Wiggy]

[JackAce]

I'm not a professional RPG writer, but here's how I'd do it:

First think of a great final goal that the characters are supposed to achieve at the end of the campaign. This will be your final Plot Point.

Next, think of things the characters need to accomplish before they can take on this final task. They may have to find certain pieces of information, discover/capture/steal certain items, deal with lesser threats before they can take on the final task, etc. Each of these lesser tasks becomes one of your Plot Points.
Also think of tasks that may be necessary to accomplish the Plot Points you already have. These become your earliest Plot Points.

Put all the Plot Points you now have in a certain order. In a very linear campaign, this may actually be a static list with each Plot Point leading to the next. For a more varied campaign, the "order" of plot points might resemble a reversed tree chart: A leads to B, C leads to D, B and D together lead to E, etc.

When you know what's about to happen in your campaign, and more importantly when it's going to happen, you can create all the details of your Plot Points to make them match the power level of the characters at the time they reach each Plot Point.+

And then, you can start adding all kinds of unrelated and semi-related adventures to mix in with your Plot Point Campaign.
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[mac40k]

As I've said before, 50 Fathoms reminds me of The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind and Oblivion video/computer games, so you might look to those for further inspiration. Here's what I note about them. The player(s) are immediately dumped into the "main" quest, but are free to pursue it or not at their leisure. The player(s) have freedom to move about the setting, but there are location based side-quests just about everywhere they go. Many of these side quests will lead them to explore other parts of the setting, where they are exposed to yet more plot points. Sprinkle in random encounters appropriate to each part of the setting to further enhance the sense of a dynamic setting. Some of the side quests once started may put things in motion that continue with or without direct intervention from the player(s). This will add a sense of realism to the setting in that it doesn't remain static, waiting for the player(s) to interact with it. Note that the main quest should not do this as you don't want the player(s) to feel that they are up against a deadline for completing it. Some of the side quests may provide an item that may be useful in pursuing the main plot, but none of them are mandatory. IOW, the player(s) should never be in a situation that they cannot advance in the main plot because they failed to discover or complete some other side plot.

Hope this helps![/i]

[Meren]

Wow, I just realized I didn't answer your questions at all...so here goes.


With that in mind, what kind of suggestions do you have that could help a fellow Savage out?
Figure out what you want your beginning middle and end of the campaign to be....then you have an agenda as a GM. You focus on giving the characters multiple oppetunities to get from A to B to C...that still allows them freedom while at the same time allowing you structure in which to work.


How would you suggest a Plot Point be structured, event-wise?

There are a few ways you can do it....you can structure a plot points by location making it into a grand sort of puzzle that eventually leads to a bigger picture and deeper into a bigger story...or you can structure them based on next steps and where they fit into the bigger puzzle...this might be eaisier to explain with a bit of an example...so we'll go with the super simple story of the characters need to stop an evil cleric raising an army of undead.

Using the location method you'd come up with this
Location A - Here the characters have the oppertunity to go on an adventure where they learn about an evil cleric who did the same thing in the past...probably just collect clues and find a lost dungeon in search of treasure, but you introduce them a little to concept.

Location B - Here the characters have to deal with goblins or orcs who are fleeing from the area the cleric has setup camp..and they're given some hints that make sense if they did location A first...if not then they'll be more receptive to the information in location A

Location C - Here the characters have to deal with an increase of crime in a major city due to a bunch of refugees who recently arrived...they could have come their from location b due to the orc attacks which leads the characters to location B, or it could have been because a blight had come to their land and their farms no longer supported them which would guide the characters to Location D

Location D - The periphary of the evil cleric's domain...here people are crying for a hero to save them and leads them to locations E, F, G (not in any particular order) that give the characters the methods neccessary to take out the evil cleric

Final Confritation

Now, especially in the eairly points there is plenty of room for filler, and even when they're messing around the clerics lands there are plenty of chances for subquest type things that have nothing to do with the bigger picture and are more character focused, but the actual plot points are tied to the locations.

Alternatively, there's the outline plot point

Event I: Characters find a map that leads them to the dungeon

Event II: When they return to the city to celebrate they find it under goblin/orc attack

Event III: After fighting the envaders refugees begin appearing who have lost their home to goblin/orc attack, they speak of rumors of the goblins/orcs fleeing themselves this leads the characters to go search for what's causing the goblins/orcs to come attack them

Pretty good space for a few filler episode things or start a major subplot

Event IV: Finally the characters end up finding out about the cleric...this could by the optional actually talking with the orcs after winning their respect and finding out a bit of back story...or they coudl skip this entirly and jump straight to event V

Event V: The player characters end up finding the lands of the cleric where all the trees and stuff are messed up and they have an encounter with a bunch of undead formerly cute and fuzzy critters.

another good space for some random one shoty combat/survival oriented adventures

Event VI: PCs find other humans who are subjigated somehow..

Event VIII: Players find some weapon to use against evil clierc

Event IX: Confrintation

I just kinda used that as a proof of concpet...it's a bit too solid to be a real plot point because the characters need more illusion of freedom...you want to have them to have ample time to intiiate their own adventures though their actions but you kinda have a winding path with a bunch of points to hit...think of it as points on a graph..the points themselves are all contained in a line...but how many other ways can you think of hitting those points?

Hope this helps.


What are things to keep in mind when creating a Plot Point campaign?

You're telling a story and the characters are the heroes who will become legends in the world eventually, you also want to keep in mind that you should focus on the characters...work in oppertunities to exploit weaknesses and exhalt edges. You don't know what they'll be? That's fine, you know your players though...think about the characters they're likely to play and then tweak things after you have definate characters...know that the plot point is broad and general leaving you plenty of room to tweak it so that each character gets a chance to shine. Think of it kinda like a five year plan...you have certain points you need to hit to accomplish big goals.

What are things to avoid when creating a Plot Point campaign?

Railroading, don't plan the campaing completely out...plan the major plot..focus on points but don't define the function the party will make...wow so much math references...basically don't try to control everything they do just know where they'll eventually end up and what they have to do to get there


Are there any resources I could use (besides the existing Plot Point campaigns themselves) that would help me in these regards?

Not specifically that I can think of...oh! Actually yeah...take your favorite books and movies and make plot points based on that story. Figure out which events were absolutly necessesary and which were not...also see where more off-trail adventures could take out and subplots could be expanded...that will help you get more of a grasp on how to work with the plot points...

[Wiggy]

Just remember, PPs don't have to "save the world for good" every time. They should certainly change it, but they don't have to be the final act in the story.

You might have an entire PP that culminates in the characters unwittingly releasing a major demon, for instance. This then opens up an entirely new Plot Point where the aim is to stop the demon from rampaging. After that, the party finds the demon has so many worshippers now it's in danger of becoming a god, so they have an evil cult to quash become a big ceremony can occur.

This could all be a single PP, of course, but why rush things? You're not constrained by page counts, so drag them out into deeper and more involved stories and leave room for younger generations to take over and yet continue the story. Perhaps the evil cult spreads slowly, so it's only after the Lengendary PCs have retired (or died of old age) that new champions are sought/dragged into things. Same world, same story, but new blood with new challenges.


Wiggy
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Wiggy
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[Flynn]

Wow! That's a lot of great advice that has been contributed in less than an hour. You guys are awesome!

In some ways, it sounds like a Plot Point is one part Adventure Path (a series of adventures that support an overarching plotline that can define a campaign or a significant section of a campaign) and one part Sandbox (a setting or campaign where adventures are arranged in a location-based matrix). This is, of course, a big generalization, and is not accurate once you get to specifics.

Many of the ideas for Plot Point creation appear to be similar to writing a novel, and I use many of them when coming up with campaign arcs. The stuff that's new to me mostly seems to be based on perspective. A novel tends to have a single perspective throughout, that of one or more people involved in the main plotline. A Plot Point campaign appears to be based initially on the perspective of an outsider looking in at the overarching plot, and then becoming involved as a means of interacting with that overarching plot. It's a world-based picture instead of a character-based picture. That will take a little shift in my thinking.

Wiggy presents the fact that Plot Points can be episodic, simply covering large stories within a single campaign (kinda like a mini-campaign of sorts), and that they do not have to span the entire campaign nor save the world. They are key scenes only, and do not need to outline or define the entire campaign, but rather just major events that occur over the course of the campaign.

Okay, great advice so far! If you have any other thoughts or suggestions, I am definitely open to them.

With Regards,
Flynn
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Jason "Flynn" Kemp
Samardan Press
http://www.lulu.com/samardanpress
Stellar Reaches, a free fanzine for Classic Traveller and Traveller T20
http://stellarreaches.nwgamers.org/

[starwars1138]

This is a great thread! Thanks Flynn for starting it, and thanks to all those who have chimed in.

One of the things I've LOVED about the various savage settings are the plot point campaigns. Since my GMing experience is rather limited and I'm not terribly creative on my own, I've always struggled with putting together a story arc/campaign thread/plot point story. I can do one-shots fairly well, and can even fit them into a pre-existing story line, but I have trouble with creating an arc itself.

I like the "work backwards" idea. Start with the final scene and work backwards. It can be broken up into episodes like a TV season. The first season (or collection of adventures) put together the first part of the story and unfold in kind from there.

Again, great thread. I hope it continues. I'll be archiving it into a text file for sure!
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[DerFinsterling]

I've been trying to come up with some bigger or smaller plot points, but it's really, really hard. Not the story background, but the overall openess of the thing, leaving a lot of options to the players.

But the easiest way to do it, for me, was to think it out strategically, like a military campaign. Kinda like Jackace already wrote.

The ultimate goal is to take control of all the illegal gaming hives on the west side of the town (say, for a mobster-like game).
To do that, you need enough men to survive a gang war. You need alliances. You need money. You need political power. You need an alternative plan if the west side fails.
Then you go on to design little adventures to get alliances, more men, the politicians in your pocket and so on...

My problem always was: It's clear for you as the GM/author that you need all these things to control illegal gambling. But some game groups will most likely only come up with a plan like "get a bunch of tommyguns and kill everybody".

So the hardest thing is again, the openness: If you don't want a Don in the background who gives the character's missions, the plot points may never get tackled.
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The Sundered Skies Serial - full of spoilers!
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[Meren]

Markus,

I'd probably let them suffer what happens but try to keep a couple of them alive. Then you give them a kind of dangerous and/or insane reputation, have some guys start using them as pawns to take control of the gambling and such themselves at that point...sure it's kinda the mob boss in the shadows...but then you have that boss set them up to get toasted and they find out before falling into the trap...you could probably get them back on course at that point because you'll have established the boss as a paranoid man who always has ample protection when in their company....but yeah I can see how that could kinda derail a well-laid plan..but still fairly eaisy to get everything back on track with a little bit of tweaking

[Wiggy]

[fanchergw]

[JackAce]

[manifold]

Those are good points, JackAce.

The strength of a plot point campaign is that it gives the campaign structure. It gives the players a set of situations and conditions that are linked together, and that are somewhat independent of the PC's involvement.

The problem with plot points is that PC's are unpredictable and often seem blindingly stupid or insane or both. They go left when you expect them to go right; they run away from help, ignore clues, beat up the innocent, accept bribes from the guilty, mock the sacred and annihilate the indestructible. So a pre-arranged set of plot elements needs to be either structurally air-tight, materially compelling, or disposable.

In other words, attempting to fashion a plot-point campaign just as its presented in a Savage Setting may not pay.

I'm not saying "don't do it", but it's worth noting how many folks who rave about the 50 Fathoms setting also say "We started with the plot point, but now the PC's just want to wander around doing pirate stuff." Since the goal of the author was to sell books, and folks bought the books, that's no skin off his nose. However, a GM who invests the same amount of time in a fully-realized plot-point campaign might chafe a bit when his players go off the tracks into crazy land.

A plot point is really a pretty simple idea, if you're planning on making one. It's an episodic mega-adventure, around and through which the players can do what they want to do. To write one, it seems to me that you have to a. know your players and what they want to do and b. begin with the end in mind. If your players don't play heroes, don't expect them to try to save the world unless there is also a big pay-off. If they are hack and slashers, don't expect them to be thrilled with court intrigue. (Basic stuff, I know. I'm not trying to patronized anyone; sometimes I need to remind myself of this stuff as well.)

Once you have a Big Goal in mind, I'd got backwards and use any and every pre-printed adventure I could get my hands on to get them there. (In fact, that's what I'm doing in my current campaign.) and weave them on the fly. I have this idea that my players are going to go from the weird West to Ptolus via a Passage in Denver. I've used a free adventure from WOTC, two PEG one-sheets, and a freebie from Sparks so far to get them there. The plot-point is in my head; a leads to b leads to c. If they go to d, or 145.9, or fruitcake, then I'll have to go right along with them, and find a way to weave it into the plot, so that they can still get to the End I have in mind.

A flow chart can be all the plot point you need. It can set up the events and conditions that will lead to the End, with lots of wiggle room and very little concrete gaming prep on your part until the PC's hit that plot. If all the work you do on "put down the goblin plot to spoil the reservoir" is to write that into a box in a flow chart, and your players skip it entirely, then its no harm, no foul and you can decide to skip it as well or have them deal with the resulting plague and zombie infestation.

I guess what it's taken me so loooooong to say is that it makes sense to me to keep your own plot points just that: plot points. Don't bother fleshing them out until you need them or inspiration hits you and its fun for you to do so. Part of what makes a plot point work is that its entirely optional for the players to participate in it, so unless you're submitting your plot point for publication, it makes little sense to put in all that work.

Flynn asked for an example of a non-PEG plot point; I'd say Monte Cook's Night of dissolution is great example of a plot-point campaign. It is episodic, it expects adventures to happen in between episodes, it gives hooks at each episode to draw the players back into the plot, it gives consequences of success or failure, and almost every episode could be great fun as a stand-alone adventure. It's worth a read if you like Monte's stuff or the Ptolus setting, or even if you just want to look at a non-SW plot point.

Another good source for this type of exercise is Call of C'thulhu d20. It has a nice section on writing CoC adventures, which tend to be episodic and plot-heavy rather than location-based and combat/puzzle heavy. The adventure about the theater is a great one, and is a great example of how several plot elements can be presented in a non-linear way.

Sorry this is so long, y'all. I know I can come across as pedantic, and it's not my intention.

[Dave Blewer]

[Ian]

Wiggy and Dave are right about plot points in that they are fun when written but a lot of hard work as i found out when i started to do one for my old fantasy world (since abandoned as i have too much SW campaigns to run anyway). Ian

[DerFinsterling]

Well, JackAce, that's just what's GMing is all about - react to your player's plans, ideas and sometimes misgivings. That's not really writing a plot point, it's running a game.

I guess every GM was in the situation that he had laid out a plan, an overall campaign-idea and then had to throw the whole thing out because the players insisted on going North instead of South - for perfectly good reasons, too (from their POV).

But, if you want to write a Plot Point campaign, that's something that's going to be run by another GM, played with a group you don't know. And that's where the hard stuff with not knowing how to get the player's involved and interested sets in.
Probably wasn't clear about that before.
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Markus
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