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Clint
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Opposed Rolls and Powers Reply with quote

Being1 wrote:
Clint wrote:
Being1 wrote:
Huh?! If the Target rolls a 9, the caster needs 10 to succeed. Wouldn't this mean that the caster needs 14 for a raise?


Hmm, think of it this way...

In an Opposed roll, the lower result is the TN that the higher result had to beat. It doesn't matter who has the higher or lower result. In the event of a tie, the defender wins.


By definition of "Target", the "Target" will always be the defender. So if a caster casts the "Lower Trait" spell on a target and the target rolls a 9 on his Spirit roll, the caster would have to roll a 10 to beat it. Therefore 10 is the TN and 14 (10+4) would be required for a raise NOT 13! If there is something about that that's wrong, please explain what PART of my explanation is wrong and why.


Okay, I'll try again.

In an Opposed Roll, the lower of the two results is the TN for the higher result for determining raises. It's a case where the "TN" is determined after both results are rolled.

So, if the caster rolled a 13 and the target rolled a 9, then the 9 is the TN as far as raises go. It doesn't matter that the caster would have lost if he rolled a 9 as well. That only comes up if he actually rolls a 9.

In the case of a tie result, then the defender wins. That does give a slight advantage to the defender. If you don't prefer that, then you could go back to the original rule and have a tie equal no winner.


But it's intended (Wink) to be simple:

The winner's TN is always the loser's result.

99% of the time there will be a clear "winner" and "loser." It's only in the rare case of a tie, that the defender has an edge.


If that is still unclear, just let me know.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being1 wrote:
Scenario 1:
A spellcaster with the Wizard Edge casts Lower Trait on an opponent, rolling 14. The opponent rolls a Spirit roll of 9 to resist. Lower Trait has a base cost of 3. Would the Wizard Edge reduce the cost to 1 due to 2 raises over a TN of 4 or would the spell cost 2 due to 1 raise over a TN of 9?


For a 3 PP spell*, the cost would be 1 PP for two raises over a TN 4. Like Bolt, successful casting doesn't necessarily equate to successful use.

For example, if the Wizard had rolled an 8 versus the 9, the spell would be unsuccessful, but it would only cost 2 PPs for the raise.

* Just in case it's a test (Wink), Lower Trait costs 2 PPs to cast, not 3.

Being1 wrote:
Scenario 2:
A spellcaster with the Wizard Edge casts the Bolt spell (3 bolts of 3d6 each). This normally costs 6 PP. There's not one, but 3 spellcasting rolls involved, although they share a Wild Die. The spellcaster rolls 15, 8, and 7 on the spellcasting rolls. I believe it would cost 3 PP:
Each bolt would cost 2PP, but the Wizard Edge would reduce the cost of the 1st bolt to 0 due to 2(+) raises. The cost of the second bolt would be reduced to 1 due to a raise and the last bolt would be at normal cost. Therefore the total cost for the spell would be 3PP.


Exactly. It's treated as three separate but simultaneous castings of the same spell.
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calypso15
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello! I'm working on my gadgeteer and I had a question.

Is there any way to make the Entangle power benefit from my rather prodigious Weird Science skill, as opposed to my rather pathetic Shooting or Throwing? The way I have it right now, it's launching metal spheres which explode into a bunch of golden filaments.

Thanks,
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Clint
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

calypso15 wrote:
Is there any way to make the Entangle power benefit from my rather prodigious Weird Science skill, as opposed to my rather pathetic Shooting or Throwing? The way I have it right now, it's launching metal spheres which explode into a bunch of golden filaments.


Well, the trappings would seem to indicate the use of a Shooting or Throwing roll, but typically it would be Weird Science.

Entangle works via an opposed roll, and as noted on p. 77 of SWR under "Using Gizmos," powers that require an opposed roll use Weird Science normally.

Again though, the trappings would indicate a Shooting roll to me. I'd recommend a bit of a tweak, and say the device is a remote control to guide the sphere to the target (the Weird Science roll) instead of just flinging them. Thus, it's the skill at using the device, not hitting the target.

Hope this helps.
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or shooting/throwing to hit, then contest of Weird science vs whatever it's resisted by.

but that's two rolls
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Cutter XXIII
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a character rises from Prone (which costs 2" of movement) while adjacent to a Foe with the First Strike edge, does the Foe get a First Strike?

Or does rising from Prone just cost movement without actually being movement?

Thanks.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutter XXIII wrote:
If a character rises from Prone (which costs 2" of movement) while adjacent to a Foe with the First Strike edge, does the Foe get a First Strike?

Or does rising from Prone just cost movement without actually being movement?


Doesn't matter really. The character is already adjacent to the one with First Strike, so First Strike would not apply since the prone character is not moving to be adjacent to him.

Or to put it another way, First Stirke only applies when a character moves to become adjacent, not if he moves while adjacent.

Hope one of those is clear. If not, let me know.
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject: Swimming, combat, and environmental protection Reply with quote

1 - if you are swimming and in combat, would it be reasonable to limit fighting by swimming skill (like riding)?

2 - if you have envirnonmental protection, is it specific? I mean, if you cast it once, are yo covered vs heat, cold, drowning, etc, or do you have to specify? (I assume the first, but I wanted to check)

3 - if you have Environmental protection up, and go into the water, you can move normally; Swimming is ordinarily at 1/2 pace. do you swim at full pace, or do you sink to the bottom and walk as if you were on land?
3a - you can speak normally, but can others hear you, or would the sound be distored by the water?
3b - can you hear others normally or is the sound distorted?
3c - if in either of those cases, it's distorted, would two poeple with the spell hear each other fine?
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Clint
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Swimming, combat, and environmental protection Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
1 - if you are swimming and in combat, would it be reasonable to limit fighting by swimming skill (like riding)?


Sounds like a reasonable house rule.

ogbendog wrote:
2 - if you have envirnonmental protection, is it specific? I mean, if you cast it once, are yo covered vs heat, cold, drowning, etc, or do you have to specify? (I assume the first, but I wanted to check)


Unless the trappings specify otherwise, it applies to everything.

ogbendog wrote:
3 - if you have Environmental protection up, and go into the water, you can move normally; Swimming is ordinarily at 1/2 pace. do you swim at full pace, or do you sink to the bottom and walk as if you were on land?


Again, that could be very dependent on the trappings, but normally, while it would protect against the effects of being in water, the power isn't going to change the fact that the character is bouyant and won't sink without some extra weight.

So, in general, the character would be swimming at his normal Pace.

ogbendog wrote:
3a - you can speak normally, but can others hear you, or would the sound be distored by the water?
3b - can you hear others normally or is the sound distorted?
3c - if in either of those cases, it's distorted, would two poeple with the spell hear each other fine?


Sound travels just fine underwater; in fact, sound travels better underwater than in air. If a character can speak, then they can be heard.
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Ben Rasmussen
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to make my first post here a stupid question, but I'm going to be running a SW DL:R game soon and an answer would be might handy...

It has to do with the Quickness spell and it's extra action. Does this just effectively negate the -2 penalty for the first additional action or is the extra action considered a seperate action.

Basically, could someone under the spell attack twice with the same weapon or run twice?

I tried poking around the site but couldn't dig up anything, so sorry if this has been asked/answered before.
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GreenTongue
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
GreenTongue wrote:
At what point do you switch to the swarm rules and would you keep the +4?


Swarms are considered a single entity; they don't get the Gang Up bonus from themselves. Generally their advantages are in their own abilities.

As far as "switching to the swarm rules," I'm not quite sure what you mean...

I was envisioning that a large number of smaller attackers against a large opponent might use the "swarm" or "group" varient.
Dinosuar hunters for example. A dinosuar could be ringed by 20 attackers.
If you use the normal rules, the odds are good that at least one will Ace with a high damage attack. To keep it simple and not break the dinosaur down into quadrants, theating the attackers as a group / swarm seemed like a possibility.
Killing the "Big Bad" with a lucky roll is not what I would like to happen.
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DerFinsterling
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the Forums!

Ben Rasmussen wrote:
It has to do with the Quickness spell and it's extra action. Does this just effectively negate the -2 penalty for the first additional action or is the extra action considered a seperate action.

Basically, could someone under the spell attack twice with the same weapon or run twice?


http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107053&highlight=quickness#107053
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Clint
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenTongue wrote:
Clint wrote:
GreenTongue wrote:
At what point do you switch to the swarm rules and would you keep the +4?


Swarms are considered a single entity; they don't get the Gang Up bonus from themselves. Generally their advantages are in their own abilities.

As far as "switching to the swarm rules," I'm not quite sure what you mean...

I was envisioning that a large number of smaller attackers against a large opponent might use the "swarm" or "group" varient.
Dinosuar hunters for example. A dinosuar could be ringed by 20 attackers.
If you use the normal rules, the odds are good that at least one will Ace with a high damage attack. To keep it simple and not break the dinosaur down into quadrants, theating the attackers as a group / swarm seemed like a possibility.
Killing the "Big Bad" with a lucky roll is not what I would like to happen.
#1confused


First off, if your PCs can get 20 people into melee combat with a dinosaur, they deserve every advantage they get. Wink

Seriously though, that's exactly one of the best strategems against such an opponent to counter its advantage, the Toughness bonus from its Size.

That's the key to keep in mind. Humans don't need the swarm rules to attack a larger creature because the creature is already getting a bonus to their Toughness to reflect the advantage over the smaller humans.

The odds will go up with multiple attackers to get increased damage, but they are facing an opponent who can take that damage thus mitigating those odds.

Of course, in SW, there's always the chance of taking out an opponent with one lucky shot. It's part of the system. Bennies are there to counter those situations on occasion, but there will be times it happens.

In short, officially, you never "switch over" to the swarm rules, but if you want to look into it unofficially, I'm sure the forums can toss out some great ideas.
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under load limits, it says on page 33 and 135 (oddly, it's only on the summary pages) that each muiltiple of load after the first gives a penatly.

so Joe Average with d6 st and a load of 30, he can carry up to 59 lbs w/out penalty? 60 to 89 is -1, at 90 -2 kicks in, etc?

Mass Combat. I assume the "general", the PC who roles the KN:Battle and morale check, he can also act as a "hero", using fighting, shooting, casting etc?
If there are other charactesr with Kn:Battle, I also assume they could assist, giving the general +1 per success and raise per the Cooperative rules on page 56? (probably by taking a flank, or being the "cavalry commander" or etc.)

or is being a Leader and being a Hero separate rolls? (maybe if you do both you are at -2?)
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Clint
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
Under load limits, it says on page 33 and 135 (oddly, it's only on the summary pages) that each muiltiple of load after the first gives a penatly.


Look also on page 10 under the Gear section where it details Encumbrance. The complete rules are there.

ogbendog wrote:
so Joe Average with d6 st and a load of 30, he can carry up to 59 lbs w/out penalty? 60 to 89 is -1, at 90 -2 kicks in, etc?


Page 10 explains more in depth, but the first multiple of the Load Limit would be 1x. So for a d6 Strength, 0-30 lbs. is no penalty, 31-60 lbs. is -1, 61-90 is -2, and so on.


ogbendog wrote:
Mass Combat. I assume the "general", the PC who roles the KN:Battle and morale check, he can also act as a "hero", using fighting, shooting, casting etc?
If there are other charactesr with Kn:Battle, I also assume they could assist, giving the general +1 per success and raise per the Cooperative rules on page 56? (probably by taking a flank, or being the "cavalry commander" or etc.)

or is being a Leader and being a Hero separate rolls? (maybe if you do both you are at -2?)


That's what I'd say. The character is effectively trying to perform two separate actions; lead the battle and fight in the battle. I'd apply the -2 MAP. Also, the general is putting himself at risk. A bad roll on participating in the battle could result in Wounds and possibly Incapacitation, leaving one side with a handicapped general for following Knowledge (Battle) rolls. Even if he spends a Benny to Soak the wounds, that's a Benny that could have been spent on a Knowledge (Battle) roll.

And yes, I would allow Cooperative rolls on the Knowledge (Battle) roll to account for sub-commanders and the like with the normal +4 maximum. Of course, the Cooperative roll would count as their "action" as well.

Hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judge Holden wrote:
I have a question that I know I have seen answered somewhere but I can't find it, so I'll ask it again.

With the Berserker background edge from the main rule book it says that you ignore all 'wound modifiers' although this doesn't seem to include shaken results.

If shaken results are not ignored, then what happens to a Berserker when he gets a shaken? does he immediatley roll his intelligence to become berserk while he is shaken? Does the shaken result drop the character out of the berserker fury? Can you remain berserk while shaken?

If possible I would love to see two examples - one where the character is healthy until he is attacked and wounded with a shaken, and a second example where the charcter is already in a berserker fury and he gets a shaken result without gaining any wounds


You are correct. Berserk does not affect being Shaken. A character can be both Shaken and Berserk.

For your two examples of a character with the Berserk Edge...

1. The character is unhurt then get a Shaken result from damage. He rolls Smarts. If he fails, he goes berserk... and it still Shaken.

2. Character is already berserk and gets a Shaken result from damage. the character is Shaken and still under the effects of Berserk.

It might help to think of it this way. Berserk allows a character to ignore pain (Wound modifiers), but it doesn't allow him to ignore shock (being Shaken).
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Bretbo
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would odd (if one considers these odd) situations like parachuting, hand-gliding, using a rocket pack/belt, ect. be considered Unstable Platforms?

Would the Fly Power be considered an Unstable Platform, especially with Weird Science Trappings?

Shouldn't the Lion write-up on p. 131 of the corebook have Low-Light Vision?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bretbo wrote:
Would odd (if one considers these odd) situations like parachuting, hand-gliding, using a rocket pack/belt, ect. be considered Unstable Platforms?


I'd say so, but it would be up to the GM's call. I might reduce or negate the penalty if say the parachutist was coming down in perfectly calm conditions.

Bretbo wrote:
Would the Fly Power be considered an Unstable Platform, especially with Weird Science Trappings?


If the character pays for the power, I wouldn't necessarily apply that penalty. Kind of like there is no Autofire penalty for firing multiple Bolts. It's a bonus the character gets for the ability being paid for in character development.

For game purposes, you might say the Weird Science version has special stabilizers to compensate.

Bretbo wrote:
Shouldn't the Lion write-up on p. 131 of the corebook have Low-Light Vision?


Well, I'm not an expert on lions, but given the reflective coating in their eyes and the white patches under their eyes (all designed to increase ambient light) and studies showing their visual acuity even in starlight conditions, I would tend to agree that lions should have Low Light Vision.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:09 am    Post subject: useing 2 weapons with a + to parry Reply with quote

I hope this hasn't been asked already, 42 pages is alot of stuff to look thru Smile If a character is useing 2 weapons that give a parry + (say rapiers for +1 each) without the 2 fisted edge would he get the +2 to parry or just +1. What about with the 2 fisted edge?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: useing 2 weapons with a + to parry Reply with quote

Shivah wrote:
I hope this hasn't been asked already, 42 pages is alot of stuff to look thru Smile If a character is useing 2 weapons that give a parry + (say rapiers for +1 each) without the 2 fisted edge would he get the +2 to parry or just +1. What about with the 2 fisted edge?


http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=129243&highlight=two+rapiers#129243
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