Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Clint]

Note: opinions ahead.

[razorwise]

Clint,

I'm in no way trying to make the Hybrid into the mythical Questing Beast. I can see where you can boil the Hybrid down to interesting versus useless bits of information. However, it's up to the designer(s) to make those choices. An open setting book typically covers everything and the choices aren't so hard to make. The more you tighten your focus, then the odds may well be you hit something dead on the nail for some and not for others, as well as omitting something someone would have some use for.

If you want to distill "hybrid" into a defined term, then I'd stand by my definition. It has a balance of useful information on both the setting and background, a solid player's guide, and a nice plot point campaign. By my definition, I'd classify NE and, to a lesser extent, ToD as hybrids.

As to your final question, I'm curious to hear what people feel are the drawbacks of open settings compared to hybrids. I've got my own opinions.

Regards,

Sean
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[Clint]

[Clint]

[Sadric]

[razorwise]

[The One]

I find this discussion a little odd..

The plot point books I've ready are what I class as hybrids, because they contain information that doesn't come in the plot points already. Take, for example, Nessercary Evil, it has details on parts of the city that aren't used and some people that don't feature prominently.

But maybe this is just me missing the point
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[wmarshal]

I think there would be a disadvantage to having a strictly open setting in particular with new settings that haven't developed a following like Deadlands has. Especially if the setting is a bit unusual (and I'd say most of the SW settings coming out are notable for having some kind of twist to make them different) it'd be useful for the GMs to have a plot point campaign available to them. It doesn't have to be a grand campaign that settles all of the major issues, but it could be more like the mini-campaign that was in the 50F Companion. If nothing else it helps provide ideas to the gm for how the world works.

To be honest some of the ideas coming out are so "out-there" I'm not sure I'd know where to begin on how to set up a campaign on my own.
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[razorwise]

[Cable Hogue]

[fanchergw]

[Ron Blessing]

I definitely think NE comes close to my idea of a hybrid. There is just enough info there to give it legs after the main campaign. This comes back to my thought that Plot Point books tend to weave enough info and create enough subplots that it could give a longer-term campaign "legs."

The main reason I was initially upset by DL:R being Open Campaign is that I thought I'd be missing out on the chance to run a campaign written by "The Man" himself. Now that this is not strictly the case, I'm more than cool with DL:R.

I think a hybrid book should basically include relatively comprehensive setting info and include a Plot Point campaign with additional Savage Tale hooks. This would of course make for a massive (read: expensive) book, so I think Shane's model for DL:R is really the best way to go: start with an open campaign setting book and come out with Plot Point books that drill down on the more interesting subject matter within the campaign world.

My caveat to the above is that, in a perfect world (where small publishers aren't forced to print in China ), the first Plot Point book should release within about a month of the "main" book.

I guess this means two things: 1) change my vote to other and 2) Shane, as usual, knows best (can we get bumper stickers made with tht Smilin' Jack logo that say "In Shane We Trust?")
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[Bill]

Pure setting books, advantages and disadvantages, hmmm.

Advantage: The setting can cover more in depth, giving more details of organizations, structures, flavor within the book. It can go into more unique equipment and can mention all the various locations of the setting, what makes them unique and important people located there.

Disadvantage: Unless you are familiar enough with the direction the author had in mind that the setting should go, you may not feel you can run it without alot of work. For example: Vampire Earth, the first "setting" written using Savage Worlds as the guide. Lots of detail, different ways of looking at things, lots of hooks, even an idea for a mini campaign setting. But doing a campaign would take a lot of work! Why? No real idea where the setting is taking you (so many choices) or how to measure progress toward the different groups' goals.

Anyway, that's my first blush.
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[Crazyribbon]

I'm of the opinion that most Savage World releases to date have been hybrid books. That being said, my vote is for hybrid books.

To answer Clint's question, in a hybrid book I would prefer to see a nearly even page-count split between setting information and plot point scenarios. If I don't have enough information about the setting to continue playing after (or before or even during) the plot point campaign, then I won't feel I have a hybrid book. I'll have a Plot Point book.

[Bill]

My concern with the proposed "Hybrid" is that it really is going to be just a longer plot point campaign book. Given a 144 page count versus a 256 page count wouldn't 50F have been a "more complete" setting? Sure! With 112 more pages all the locations and savage tales could have been given the detail that some seemed to think was missing!

Rippers covers the whole of Victorian world but not in the detail needed to give alot of help for someone setting up in Austraila or Pinebox, Texas but it can be done. It just takes more work and a really good familiarity with the location and time.

It seems to me the more tightly (area wise) a setting is focused the more detail you have got, but the less of the world you see. Settings set on earth need to give information on what is happening to all areas to be what this international forum would term "complete" but would then tend to be pretty thin on any one locality.

It seems to me that you are saying you only get a setting, only get a plot-point OR you get both! Who wouldn't want both? You don't get something for nothing. What are you willing to sacrifice for both? If you sacrifice detail for the plot points don't you have 50F? If you keep detail and limit scope don't you get TOD? If you don't sacrifice either you get a Shaintar players guide longer than many books and nothing on the setting or a longer, more expensive book!

Hybrids just seem to me to be a plot point campaign with more details. The only way that could be done would be to have a longer book. I would have to see a "Hybrid" done on a 144 page format and see how it shapes up to the plot point books presented already. Until you have something to compare to, how can you compare something that has never been done with existing products, expecially if you don't have any guidelines for comparison?
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[Alan]

I think perhaps the biggest thing we have going on here is the savage worlds philosophy. By that I mean the tendency towards rules and detail light, which is apparently popular around these parts. This is reflected in the tendency towards being less inc lined towards 'pure' setting books. Or thats my armchair psychology stab at the truth.

My main problem with such books is that the volume of information is sometime obtrusive. You know you read something about thing X somewhere, but its not in the index and you cna't find it anywhere. It can get very annoying. On the flip side, when you are intimatly familiar with all the detail a good gm can really bring a campaign to life. Its tough. While I've never found information about the size of the church and number of troops in the standing army to be of great use I daresay others have.

From what I know of NE, 50F and rippers I would be inclined to call them hybrids, but that might be because I have the very clinical idea that a pure plot point thing might as well just be the plot points and a few other savage tales for padding. Essentially being pre-written adventure compilation. Which also have their place. I know at least one game that I really wanted to run but really had no idea where to start as far as a game let alone a campaign was concerned. So I boght some pre-writtens and lo they were good and really got me going. If you'd have just given me the players section of NE and asked me to run a campaign it would have been much the same, the plot points and savage tales lit a fire under me and now I'd love to run another campaign focusing on the rest of the world running paralell to the events of the main arc.

Not sure there is a point in there, but uh, I'm for plot point goodness. It is an accelerator I'm happy to have in the base setting. Now if I like the setting and plot points and a 'pure setting' supplement came out, that would be an easy sale because once I'm in I'm a sucker for supplements.

Alan
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[Bill]